Getting Promoted in BJJ too quickly :(

[Evenflow80]

I feel like blue belts have one of the widest spreads of ability of all of the belts, perhaps because most people stay there for SO long. I almost wonder if there should be another belt category added within blue, but defer to those with much more experience in the sport. Sounds like a fun comp experience, though. Did you win or did he?

As for my case, I don't know, but we'll see. I only train that much because I love every second of it, so belt color shouldn't matter. It only matters to me when some visiting purple belt guy comes over and decides to spend our whole roll "teaching" me stuff I already know without letting me work at all.

Yeah I hate that too. Advice or tips after a roll are much appreciated, but not during it!

He won but before we went to overtime because we were tied and at the very end when I saw my coach yelled 5 seconds left I sort of relaxed my open guard and he passed the last second. The referee basically gave him the 2 points same exact second bell rang

Oh well. It was fun regardless.

 

[Evenflow80]

4-5x a week is on the higher end of a hobbyist. If you pulled that off for 7 straight years with no substantial breaks/time-off then I would imagine you would be at very worst a respectable brown.

It's hard to get an accurate time-frame to be honest. Some schools might have only 1 hour practices while others have 1.5-2 hour (12 years at school A might be the same mat time as 8 years at school B). Gym hopping and extended periods of time off usually delay most people as well

I would say that and because the person isn't experienced enough to deal with people who have come from other backgrounds.

If you have 2 low level blue belt with one having 400-600 hours of mat time while the other guy has that plus 300-500 extra hours of wrestling/no-gi (before starting BJJ) then the skill gap is gonna be huge since the first guy doesn't have enough hours to make the skill gap low

By the time you reach purple the gap closes significantly since the BJJ only guy has enough experience to where the extra couple hundred hours of the 2nd guy isn't as big of a deal

Hey man I hope so * knock on wood* . Going on 3 years at that training pace (havent even take a single straight week off) with no major injuries. Probably just jinxed myself now....

 

[jr jr]

Happens a lot. Just last week I saw a blue belt submit our newest black belt.

Granted, hes our resident blue belt gym assassin (best Blue we have IMO) and hes tall and lanky, while the black belt barely trains anymore and is much smaller (about my size). Still, it was surreal to see....

I get submitted almost every practice (I am an advanced belt). Almost always by someone who is less experienced. I may be doing one of a couple of things.

One of my favorite games is to let a blue belt get as deep as possible on, lets say a bow and arrow, and then try and get out. Guess what? Sometimes I don't. It is a better use of my time than just beating the hell out of the dude for 5 minutes.

Sometimes, I play something I never do. I may spend an entire round trying to do nothing but a specific deep half sweep, or only trying to do toe holds. Guess what, sometimes this leaves me in terrible positions and people get ahead. If you saw me on one of these evenings I would not appear to match my rank (possibly I don't anyway).

 

[Evenflow80]

I get submitted almost every practice (I am an advanced belt). Almost always by someone who is less experienced. I may be doing one of a couple of things.

One of my favorite games is to let a blue belt get as deep as possible on, lets say a bow and arrow, and then try and get out. Guess what? Sometimes I don't. It is a better use of my time than just beating the hell out of the dude for 5 minutes.

Sometimes, I play something I never do. I may spend an entire round trying to do nothing but a specific deep half sweep, or only trying to do toe holds. Guess what, sometimes this leaves me in terrible positions and people get ahead. If you saw me on one of these evenings I would not appear to match my rank (possibly I don't anyway).

Thats a good mentality to have to be honest. I think our egos prevent that most of the time. I was just realizing that the other day: when we roll, we almost always tend to stick to what we know and maybe once in a blue moon add a technique we like into our repertoire. I think that is one of the pitfalls of rolling: people dont try new things out of fear or being submitted. Its a tough habit to break because its so easy to fall into old habits.

 

[jack36767]

Nah, your still just an insecure, petty little shit that craves attention by being a drama queen, thats all. The best insult anyone can give an insignificant nobody like you is to ignore, so back off to the ignore list for you!

“I placed in every tournament! Do I deserve a promotion??”
Is what you said
I’m not starting drama. It is what it is

 

[TheMaster]

I know this is a topic that is done to death, but I can't help but remain concerned over this.

At my academy, if you come and train at least 3 times a week, you will get your blue at 1 year and purple at 3 years, brown at 5, and black at 7 years.

I'm pretty consistent, train 4 - 5 times a week, and now as a 4 stripe blue I am basically 4-5 months away from getting my purple which makes it exactly 3 years to get purple.

There is no question my professor is legit as hell, multiple Pan am and even a Worlds no-gi gold. Countless smaller comp wins.

I've only competed 4 times so far, all as blue. Got a gold, two silvers, and a bronze. So I do all right against other academies I guess, but not stellar by any means.

At what point is getting a belt in BJJ too quick to be considered a fake, mcDojo belt? is getting a purple at 3 years a joke? I am hardly a phenom at all, pretty decent but nothing special.

Basically, based on your experience and thoughts, what would you consider as the most legit number of years to get to each belt? And any less than that number you would consider that person to be not as legit?

Speaking of normal people, not prodigies who compete and medal 12 times a year.

Thanks!

Fixed time automatic belt promotions are the stupidest idea ever. Not sure how that started am quite sure the Gracies did not do it like that as it is a sure way to water down and render rank meaningless.
Probably a financial reason- keep sticking a carrot in front of someone and they will keep showing up and paying fees to get 'rank'

From a Judo perspective, there is no fixed time for grade progression. You have to be able to demonstrate application of the techniques from the curriculum for that grade, and also be able to demonstrate overall ability in live contest to a good level against others of the same grade, factoring in size and age etc using common sense.

If you havent mastered the necessary techniques for the next rank and cant apply them against someone resisting, you wont be graded up simple as that, regardless of how long you've been training.

Seems to work fine overall.
No one is expecting that if your a 2nd Dan Judoka you will able to necessarily beat a brownbelt training and competing for a spot in the nationals.
But you will be more knowledgeable, be able to teach better, and should theoretically have better technique although again it depends how much you train and do contest.

It is a similar issue with age. A 50 yr old blackbelt may lose to 20 yr old bluebelt but does that mean his rank is invalid or he should he demoted? It would be ridiculous to think that way.
Standards can be maintained and a belt system is an indication of technical knowledge and profficiency in execution of technique, teaching, character development and committment and also competing ability although as this also can be mitigated by physical factors and youth it may the less important factor as time passes.

 

[KenkaBancho]

Fixed time automatic belt promotions are the stupidest idea ever. Not sure how that started am quite sure the Gracies did not do it like that as it is a sure way to water down and render rank meaningless.
Probably a financial reason- keep sticking a carrot in front of someone and they will keep showing up and paying fees to get 'rank'

From a Judo perspective, there is no fixed time for grade progression. You have to be able to demonstrate application of the techniques from the curriculum for that grade, and also be able to demonstrate overall ability in live contest to a good level against others of the same grade, factoring in size and age etc using common sense.

If you havent mastered the necessary techniques for the next rank and cant apply them against someone resisting, you wont be graded up simple as that, regardless of how long you've been training.

Seems to work fine overall.
No one is expecting that if your a 2nd Dan Judoka you will able to necessarily beat a brownbelt training and competing for a spot in the nationals.
But you will be more knowledgeable, be able to teach better, and should theoretically have better technique although again it depends how much you train and do contest.

It is a similar issue with age. A 50 yr old blackbelt may lose to 20 yr old bluebelt but does that mean his rank is invalid or he should he demoted? It would be ridiculous to think that way.
Standards can be maintained and a belt system is an indication of technical knowledge and profficiency in execution of technique, teaching, character development and committment and also competing ability although as this also can be mitigated by physical factors and youth it may the less important factor as time passes.

I think this is a good post but there are days I think that everyone should go nogi and not have a belt system.

I actually demoted myself a few years ago after training for a number of years and getting a blue cos my coach left the country and I stopped training for a number of years after that b/c reasons.

I think it was warranted at that time (when I restarted training BJJ had advanced so much that I didn't know any of what was considered basic white belt techniques today) but within a few months of consistency i was rolling and sometimes submitting blues and purples again. My new coach seems to not want to promote at all for whatever reason and I don't feel right competing at white so I'm a little stuck.

 

[Your Noodly Master]

Interesting, so at your academy they sandbag competitiors? I've heard of that, even though I thought at most academies it was the opposite: those that compete (and medal) get promoted quicker than hobbyists.

Also 5-6 times a week 2-3 hours each time is a ton of mat time. How much do you roll / spar each session/class?

Sandbagging is definitely alive and well. A guy in my division competed 3 years in a row at white belt in the Atlanta IBJJF until he won the division. I faced him his third year (my first) when he won. Fast forward 4 years and I'm competing at purple and he's still blue. There are two highly competitive academies in Atlanta with some interesting history. I won't name names, but if you live here you know who I'm talking about.

 

[kjg1672]

When I started training 11 years ago it was very rare for someone to get, say, a purple belt in three years. During my first five or six years of training I had seen it happen only once, and it was awarded to a former D1 wrestler. Unfortunately I think promotions generally are given more quickly now, but I also have seen only maybe one or two black belts who I didn't think were legit, and one hardly ever trained any more.

As far as a belt system goes, I can understand someone wanting to do away with them. But as an adult any kind of reward or acknowledgement for legitimate hard work and sacrifice can be hard to come by, so a silly little strip of thread to go around your waist can actually feel pretty good.

 

[lechien]

[QUOTE="TheMaster, post: 146976317, member

Actually in my country, to earn your judo BB, you need to win ten matches versus brown or black belt.

In Japan, you can earn your BB via batsugun which requires to win 3 matches in a row .

Judo BB are not earned via technical exam .

 

[lechien]

Back to ts post, it seems that your instructor follows the ibjj minimum time requirements per belt.

 

[Evenflow80]

Back to ts post, it seems that your instructor follows the ibjj minimum time requirements per belt.

Yup, sure does seem that way.

I dont agree with it personally, and I suspect the guy does it to retain students (its a business in hyper competitive San Diego market). What I dont question is the legitimacy of my instructor: his competition record speaks for itself and in my 3 years there not once have I seen him get tapped or even put in a bad spot, even against many visiting black belts.

 

[lechien]

Yup, sure does seem that way.

I dont agree with it personally, and I suspect the guy does it to retain students (its a business in hyper competitive San Diego market). What I dont question is the legitimacy of my instructor: his competition record speaks for itself and in my 3 years there not once have I seen him get tapped or even put in a bad spot, even against many visiting black belts.

It could be a lot worst like the guys that give an additional belt between white and blue belt .

 

[asian-glow]

It could be a lot worst like the guys that give an additional belt between white and blue belt .

They were doing this at the Ribeiro Bros for a while. Not sure if they're still doing it. Honestly makes a lot of sense from a student retention perspective.

 

[mattemate]

Yeah belts are a real weird thing in BJJ and they're so different gym to gym.

Honestly it sounds like your coach is promoting a little fast but that's his prerogative.

My coach promotes slow. He's super legit. some people would even accuse him of sandbagging but it's not that he just wants each belt to mean a certain thing. He's promoted a couple of guys to Brown but as far as I know he's never promoted anyone to Black. Academy just opened 2 years ago. but he's got very high standards for black belt as well, he laughs at a lot of black belts.

going back to your coach I do think it's kind of a strange thing that if you just keep showing up you're going to get black belt after 7 years. just doesn't seem right. My first coach train for 10 years straight, and was an instructor for probably six or seven of those years, and was doing very well against high level black belts in the gym and in competition. Didn't matter. He was directly under Relson and with Relson, back then anyway, you are just going to do 10 years before your black belt.

I don't necessarily agree with any one of these cases. You have guys like caio terra and BJ Penn and kit Dale who managed to become world class in 4 years or less. I don't see how you don't give those guys a black belt.

I'm currently at my academy there are two guys that are white belts that I feel absolutely should be blue belts. My coach is reluctant to promote them because they've both been training less than a year. I think that's more of a testament to his coaching and the system he's developed. people come in from other academies for open mats and these guys are smashing some of the blues and hanging with purples. one of them can catch me in footlocks sometimes if I screw around and start playing footsie with him lol.

In conclusion belts are gay

 

[Your Noodly Master]

I get submitted almost every practice (I am an advanced belt). Almost always by someone who is less experienced. I may be doing one of a couple of things.

One of my favorite games is to let a blue belt get as deep as possible on, lets say a bow and arrow, and then try and get out. Guess what? Sometimes I don't. It is a better use of my time than just beating the hell out of the dude for 5 minutes.

Sometimes, I play something I never do. I may spend an entire round trying to do nothing but a specific deep half sweep, or only trying to do toe holds. Guess what, sometimes this leaves me in terrible positions and people get ahead. If you saw me on one of these evenings I would not appear to match my rank (possibly I don't anyway).

Very true. Beating up on blues is fun sometimes but it gets old. A thing that another brown belt and I do is to pick a specific submission for each other that is only thing we can use that night. If you can only get left arm omoplatas then it forces you to be creative with setups.

The ridiculous YouTube videos and gym stories with white and blue belts submitting black belts can't be taken seriously. If the lower belt does the setup correctly then I'll tap even if I can get out. That's all you are seeing in those situations.

 

[TheMaster]

[QUOTE="TheMaster, post: 146976317, member

Actually in my country, to earn your judo BB, you need to win ten matches versus brown or black belt.

In Japan, you can earn your BB via batsugun which requires to win 3 matches in a row .

Judo BB are not earned via technical exam .

I said it is earned via both technical ability and contest.
So yes, you must he able to defeat others of the same rank which means other blackbelts if trying to attain one.
You must also show technical execution of the techniques for that level. If you cant get that, you wont even progress to live contesting for the rank.
I think this is fairly standard in one form or another across nations in Judo, providing it is a legit school.

Judo has always been considered the most difficult and respected, legit 'blackbelt' to achieve because of these criteria.
Because the watering down of other systems and nonsense like 'automatic grade progression' doesnt exist in Judo, it remains the most legit and difficult (and the original) blackbelt to attain in martial arts.

 

[JustTheTip]

If you are a competitor, getting promoted just before you feel you are ready is actually good for your development. In my observations, more students have been hurt by getting promoted too slow than getting promoted too fast. The best performing BJJ academies in tournaments regularly promote their students at average to faster than average intervals. The academies that are known to promote their students extra slow usually have average to below average success in tournaments.

 

[Kbits]

[QUOTE="TheMaster, post: 146976317, member

Actually in my country, to earn your judo BB, you need to win ten matches versus brown or black belt.

In Japan, you can earn your BB via batsugun which requires to win 3 matches in a row .

Judo BB are not earned via technical exam .

You can earn non competitive blackbelt in judo through a combination of kata, technical display, coaching and referring. Make sense if you consider older judoka; can't see a 50 year old winning any competition points via shiai against 20 year olds.

There's was actually a big stink in Oz because until recently, Masters competitions didn't count towards points, so introduced a bit of a bottle neck.

 

[DatCutman]

Judo has always been considered the most difficult and respected, legit 'blackbelt' to achieve because of these criteria.

Do you mean grappling-art black belt? Because if you mean any black belt whatsoever, I'd have to say the Kyokushin black belt is a nightmarish ordeal by comparison.