Good luck finding a doctor in the future

[Oregonmma]

Called 7 offices to get a new PCP. First available appointment was in November.

I've denied at least 5-10 new patients today. We have a wait list with over 400 people wanting to be new patients and maybe 30 of em will be accepted by the end of this year. If they're lucky.

 

[HomeCheese]

I've been working in the medical industry for some years now and I can already see a huge trend happening. Since covid a massive amount of doctors have retired and there isn't enough students working to become doctors to fill the gap. Most of the younger physicians are PA's or NP's not MD's. I mean why would you want to spend 10-12 years piling up massive debt to eventually become a doctor when you can start making youtube/tik tok videos at the age of 10 and by the time you're even out of high school you can have a successful career. Our society has successfully prevented an entire nation from wanting to start careers in jobs that we need due to student debt.

I predict within 20 years that you will no longer go to a doctor for yearly check ups and will only go in the most dire situation where you will need to pay out of pocket. Keeping the rich healthier while they continue to diminish the health of the average citizen. Murica tho right?

You live in a rural area? I see a maldistribution of physicians away from the real areas towards the big cities as well as an overall primary care shortage.

 

[Fedor>Cain]

I've been working in the medical industry for some years now and I can already see a huge trend happening. Since covid a massive amount of doctors have retired and there isn't enough students working to become doctors to fill the gap. Most of the younger physicians are PA's or NP's not MD's. I mean why would you want to spend 10-12 years piling up massive debt to eventually become a doctor when you can start making youtube/tik tok videos at the age of 10 and by the time you're even out of high school you can have a successful career. Our society has successfully prevented an entire nation from wanting to start careers in jobs that we need due to student debt.

I predict within 20 years that you will no longer go to a doctor for yearly check ups and will only go in the most dire situation where you will need to pay out of pocket. Keeping the rich healthier while they continue to diminish the health of the average citizen. Murica tho right?

Man, if there is one thing that is running rampant in the US, it's the impoverished doctor's out there

How will they ever be able to afford their Audi's, BMW's, and vacation homes

Also, ain't nobody wanting to go to school 10-12 years regardless of how much it costs. I think that's gonna be the crux of the problem right there as opposed to debt. Plenty of ways to get your employer to pay off most if not all of your debt as a physician

 

[lowlife]

I haven't been to see a Dr outside of a couple emergency situations for like 20 years. I finally decided to go to one, scheduled for next week. It took a few phone calls before one accepted me, and the appointment was made for like a month out, fwiw.

 

[Oregonmma]

You live in a rural area? I see a maldistribution of physicians away from the real areas towards the big cities as well as an overall primary care shortage.

I'm in Portland. Largest city in the state.

 

[aerius]

The US is at a historic high for doctors per capita, lose half the docs who are working right now and you'd be back to 1960s to 1970s levels in terms of patients per doctor. The problem isn't the number of doctors, it's in the US medical system which is designed for maximum profit rather than actually curing diseases and keeping people healthy.

 

[degoj99]

I'm in Portland. Largest city in the state.

There is a kernel of truth - the shortage is way worse in rural areas. For someone with an MD who wants a big ass estate out in the country somewhere, rural US is your oyster.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

Open up what Nurse Practitioners and pharmacist can do. AMA artificially reduces licensing, so up those. However, it's up to doctors if they want to increase their patient lists. Some doctors are comfortable with lower amounts, a lot will reject because they just don't want the type of clientele applying.

 

[Misfit23]

I've denied at least 5-10 new patients today. We have a wait list with over 400 people wanting to be new patients and maybe 30 of em will be accepted by the end of this year. If they're lucky.

Yeah it's a shit show. Zoomcare has filled the gaps for minor checkups like blood work and annual physicals but found myself needing a PCP for something else.

 

[Joshuaace]

Isn't India training enough Doctors for the entire world? I think 7 of the last 10 Dr's I've seen were from India. Including my current Primary, Cardiologist, and Nephrologist.

 

[Oregonmma]

Isn't India training enough Doctors for the entire world? I think 7 of the last 10 Dr's I've seen were from India. Including my current Primary, Cardiologist, and Nephrologist.

That's the factor that will help a bit is that a ton of other countries are still going the traditional route of doctors/lawyers etc. The dream of being a doctor as an American youth is pretty much gone. Can't blame em honestly.

 

[Spounman]

Maybe all of our (America) doctor's are med students in India. And if they can do it and be good at it

 

[idrankyourbeer]

As a doctor you can all send me money via PM and I will give you a check up.

no thanks, i'll use web md.

my foot kind of hurts today. looks like ive got rheumatoid arthritis, hallux rigidis, raynaud's phenominon, gangrene, and sesamoiditis. brb gonna book my amputation and order my coffin.

 

[pv3Hpv3p]

My friends wife is a traveling surgeon and goes to places around the country because they currently can't staff doctors.

She's got to go to some shitholes but is getting paaaaaaaid.

 

[Sunnyvale TP]

At least in my area 90% of health problems/concerns a NP and PA are not only more efficient but more personable as well.

Sister cut her hand 2 weeks ago. Went across the street to the PA and he stitched her up on the spot for 99 dollars cash. A MD ? Must be admitted to ER, must have nurse check you over, then they'll see you and do stitches (drawn out process where there sole goal is to bill the insurance for 3 different categories).

Have the Flu ? Go to that same PA for a small fee and he quickly runs the test and then immediately gives you tamiflu on the onsite dispenser. Doctor ? Hopefully there's a same day appointment assuming your already in network (if not it's 3 weeks minimum to see them) and then they turn a small visit into an hour ordeal with no prescriptions on site.

Cheaper isn't necessarily lower quality. My mom just retired doing ICU for over 40 years and loved the nighttime NP way more than any doctor she ever worked. Where way more personable, much more willing to help, and had a better grasp of the actual real day to day needs of the unit.

I work in Healthcare, NPs and PAs are just like doctors in the sense that some are good some are bad at their job. They are cheaper to employ and schooling is cheaper and faster.

I prefer that no matter which person is calling the shots they listen and take into mind what the nursing and support staff have to say about the patient. Sometimes NP and PAs work better with support staff.

With that said, I would take a well adjusted Pulmonologist/ Intensivist over an NP/PA in the ICU setting.

Healthcare is definitely feeling the burn of less new employees to staff medical facilities with.

 

[panamaican]

Open up what Nurse Practitioners and pharmacist can do. AMA artificially reduces licensing, so up those. However, it's up to doctors if they want to increase their patient lists. Some doctors are comfortable with lower amounts, a lot will reject because they just don't want the type of clientele applying.

Not AMA -- Congress.

Congress chooses how many residencies they will fund. So, hospitals only have as many residencies as Congress will fund. And without more residencies, there's no reason to open more medical schools because a percentage of your graduates won't get the residency they need to later enter practice.

People need to lobby Congress to fund more residencies because we have more than enough people who can become doctors, we just don't have enough medical school seats for them.

 

[Scheme]

No, they haven't. Not even close in general. Also, the very fact you just used the statement:



tells me everything I need to know about your mathematical capabilities. As for the "blurb" I posted, it was from the paper you posted and explicitly says the opposite of your claim.

No offense but you're not as smart as you're trying to demonstrate here. Read the papers properly and don't be naive.

From your very quote:

Its outstanding performance, comparable with that of experts, saves huge amounts of time in clinical practice, which, in turn, alleviates the tension in the long-established process of the transition from novice clinician to expert.

I don't understand why it's hard to believe that AI could be better than us at classification of huge data sets when it has consistently shown the ability to in various fields? You are just saying the conclusions of these papers are just not true? Not really an argument.

Nothing about that statement was mathematical or incorrect, AI can process larger data sets much faster than humans. That's just simple fact, to deny that is to deny reality. The more widespread usage of the AI becomes the more data sets it will be exposed to which will lead to better modeling.

I guess live like the Luddites then and refuse to look at the world as it is changing. But almost every single research and development department is either currently using AI to improve their business or heavily investing into it. AI can already do many things previously thought impossible and we are moving forward at a speed we haven't seen before. But, for some reason this one use case that a multitude of papers have shown AI is on par or better than humans at already will somehow not? Okay buddy, maybe you should take it up with the authors.

 

[Sweater of AV]

From your very quote:


I don't understand why it's hard to believe that AI could be better than us at classification of huge data sets when it has consistently shown the ability to in various fields? You are just saying the conclusions of these papers are just not true? Not really an argument.

Nothing about that statement was mathematical or incorrect, AI can process larger data sets much faster than humans. That's just simple fact, to deny that is to deny reality. The more widespread usage of the AI becomes the more data sets it will be exposed to which will lead to better modeling.

I guess live like the Luddites then and refuse to look at the world as it is changing. But almost every single research and development department is either currently using AI to improve their business or heavily investing into it. AI can already do many things previously thought impossible and we are moving forward at a speed we haven't seen before. But, for some reason this one use case that a multitude of papers have shown AI is on par or better than humans at already will somehow not? Okay buddy, maybe you should take it up with the authors.

That quote is from the paper you provided that reviews 9 studies and is focused mostly on image recognition.

Since you can't seem to read or understand what you've posted, I'll do it for you:

Although the recently promising self-learning abilities of AI may lead to additional prospects [22], the viability of such diagnostic processes is inevitably determined by human experts through cumulative clinical experience [23,24]. In other words, clinical experts are the go-to persons informing AI of what the desired predictions are.
AI is still incapable of interpreting what it has obtained from data and of providing telling results. Therefore, the final success of AI is conditionally restricted by medical professionals who are the real evaluators of their diagnostic performance. This signifies its artificial nature in a human-dominated medical environment.

No objective person could possibly read that paper and come to the conclusion that doctors are going to be replaced. AI will be a useful tool to help with diagnoses, data management etc. However, it would be extremely stupid to try and completely remove doctors from any part of the process, especially considering the utility of AI rests entirely on having good doctors.

Enjoy your "infinite" data sets. Lol.

 

[Loiosh]

Canada is feeling the effects of this right now, with a huge population surge and without an increase in available doctors.

Very true. The US is snatching all our doctors because they pay much, much more.

I have a series of health issues at the moment and don't have a family doctor. I've had a hell of time getting treated (in Quebec).

My blood pressure issues were handled immediately, but I need an ultrasound on my shoulder to see if it's tendonitis and that could take months. I'm about to start physio without knowing with certainty what the actual problem is.

Or I could drive to Ontario and get that handled tomorrow. We're miles behind them.

 

[SKYNET]

I predict within 20 years that you will no longer go to a doctor for yearly check ups and will only go in the most dire situation

*timestamped*