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He wasn't "gifted the win", Tito tapped out.
Guy Mezger - just short of greatness
- Thread starter Koro_11
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He wasn't "gifted the win", Tito tapped out.
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I like these quality posts, is what the forum is supposed to be about.I'm guessing a lot of newbs on the forum will never even have heard of Guy Mezger. I'm not a fan of Lion's Den, but Guy seemed really cool and I think that dude is a bit of an unsung hero in MMA history.
The easy thing to do is to glance at his 30-13 career record and shrug. One might search for his most notable wins and seeing Tito Ortiz, Yuki Kondo and Semmy Schilt probably wont' blow you away. So what's the big deal? I think the big deal is the key fights he didn't win (or at least didn't get rewarded the win.
The guy had a long Pancrase career, had a short UFC stint, but the his best opportunity to make his name on the MMA scene came in the earlier Pride events. He was constantly getting matched up with guys who are today considered legends and MMA royalty, and I would argue that Guy was just as good as them, but could never catch a break when he needed it.
vs Kazushi Sakuraba
This is Mezger's first high profile fight in Pride. Sakuraba is on an absolute tear at this point of his career coming off 5 submission finishes and a win over Vitor Belfort in his previous 7 fights, and is being talked about as the best p4p fighter in the world at the time. Mezger is strong everywhere tho and bests Sakuraba in the fight. The Pride judges however call it a draw and demand an overtime round. At this point Ken Shamrock (who was Mezger's coach) flips out and tells his fighter to refuse to come out and that he won that fight. The Lions Den crew exists the ring, and Sakuraba wins by default, and thanks to that momentum he then goes on to make history in his next fight when he outlasts Royce in a 90 minute classic and becomes the Gracie Hunter.
There are very few fighters I like as much as Sakuraba, but I honestly can't make a case that he won that fight.
vs Wanderlei Silva
Mezger has now put together a couple of wins since the Sakuraba fight debacle and finds himself matched up with a new force in the Pride organization. Wanderlei is in the prime of his youth, but not quite yet the destroyer he would become, this fight is a big test for him and he will have to bring his A game here.
Mezger starts out great beating Wanderlei to almost every strike, he's landing all kinds of kicks and punches on him early and has him cut pretty good above the eye a minute into the fight. Somewhere midway through the round Wanderlei lands a good strike of his own and now he has Mezger backing up and goes for it. Mezger seems to recover very well and is dodging most of the attack now, but Wanderlei gets him in the corner and throws a headbutt right at Mezger's chin, then follows it up with a couple of punches that drop him and finish the fight.
Now I'm not gonna try to say that Silva wouldn't have won without the headbutt, it certainly looked like he was turning the tide at that point, but the truth is we will never know. Wanderlei Silva would get his first Pride knockout and he would ride that momentum and follow it up with a legendary 16 fight unbeaten streak that cemented him as one of the most feared men in MMA history.
vs. Chuck Liddell
Mezger would bounce back from the Wanderlei loss with a 4 fight win streak. He was now matched up with UFC star Chuck Liddell testing the Pride waters in his debut there. In typical Mezger style he would start off very strong by winning the striking exchanges and giving Chuck nothing to hit for the entire first round while knocking him down and frustrating him the entire round.
Of course in classic Mezger "winning til he lost" fashion, Chuck comes out swinging to begin the second round and finds that chin for a classic knockout. Chuck would follow up the win over Mezger with a legendary career and go on to become one of the great UFC champions.
vs Ricardo Arona
Arona is the new Brazilian in Pride, his first test is a tough one, but Arona already has good experience vs stiff competition with a pair of wins over Jeremy Horn, and arguably a win over the great Fedor Emelianenko (depends under which rules you score the fight). Mezger however proves to be a very difficult puzzle and Arona seems to have no answers for him. The fight wasn't a blowout or anything, but guy seemed to have clearly done more, yet Arona is given the split decision by the judges. The conspiracy theorist in me would say the Japanese wanted to build the fresh new Brazilian who's built like an action figure over a guy who's been around for a while and has several losses already.
vs Rogerio Nogueira
No easy fights for Guy, this time he gets another rising Brazilian star in Lil Nog. Again, same story as the Arona fight, Mezger seems to do more, but judges give a split decision to Nogueira who goes on to become one of the top Pride MW's.
So what's my point?
Just that MMA is a brutal sport man. If you watched his fights this is a guy that had all the gifts and was one of the strongest and most well rounded guys at the time. He gave prime legends some of their toughest fights, and arguably beat most of them. The Sakuraba fight was a pretty blatant robbery, the Arona fight was pretty bad too imo and I thought he should have got the Lil Nog decision too. The headbutt Silva landed before he knocked him out was obviously illegal, but who knows how the fight might have unfolded without it. In the case of Chuck he got beat fair and square, but I guess you could say he won every minute of that fight except for the minute where he got caught and knocked out. But a little more luck here and there, a little better judging, and you wouldn't find many sherdoggers who don't know Guy Mezger. As it is the guy is a forgotten warrior, but hopefully this thread give him some recognition.
Yes Guy and the Lions Den were pioneers, he was always in Kens shadow and particularly the Sakuraba fight he should have been allowed to go on but had to defer to Ken. Was one of the first well rounded Americans.
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Beautiful words. Thanks for sharing.
First round no less.
Guy's business.
Home - Mezger Systems
Home - Mezger Systems
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Yeah he deserves much more respect. Was also awarded with “the most eligible bachelor” in whatever state he resided in. I think it was before the saku fight they were talking about it. Getting some mainstream attention back when MMA would get none.
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Sorry but long rant incoming. Guy Mezger is one of the most underrated of all time.
Professional kickboxer, highschool state wrestling champion, and BJJ brown belt all during an era where most fighters weren't well rounded.
Many argue that PRIDE screwed him out of a hall of fame career. He beat Sakuraba when he considered the best p4p fighter on the planet yet the pride officials demanded him to do an overtime round even though he had won. He refused and was DQ'd even though he fulfilled his contract and had won. Many believe he should of also got the node against Arona and Nog (both fights where controversial). He gets those 3 wins and he's easily a HOF caliber fighter that everyone is talking about.
He was scheduled to fight Tito for a third time for the title and unfortunately had stroke like symptoms due to presciption drug that got recalled (Vioxx). It was a shame since his grappling/wrestling had evolved and unlike the previous 2 Tito fights Mezger actually started to fill out his frame and had a LHW frame/weight (he had a good chance of beating Tito).
As for coaching unfortunalely his gym didn't go that great. Lots of artifical arrogance from coaches. Not a great deal of structure. BJJ coach was a complete moron. The best fighters were literally the ones that left the gym (Sean Spencer, Ryan Benoit, Derek Campos, Jason Sampson).
His IQ, technique, and ability to convey lesson plans on his part was elite. Guy had the knowledge and potential to be a Mike Brown level coach but he spent way too much time behind the scenes either running the business or doing other side projects (graduate school for holistic health, being the president of hdnet fights, seminars, running the business aspect of the school).
If someone else ran the gym and he was solely responsible for just showing up and coaching then things would of been alot different.
Professional kickboxer, highschool state wrestling champion, and BJJ brown belt all during an era where most fighters weren't well rounded.
Many argue that PRIDE screwed him out of a hall of fame career. He beat Sakuraba when he considered the best p4p fighter on the planet yet the pride officials demanded him to do an overtime round even though he had won. He refused and was DQ'd even though he fulfilled his contract and had won. Many believe he should of also got the node against Arona and Nog (both fights where controversial). He gets those 3 wins and he's easily a HOF caliber fighter that everyone is talking about.
He was scheduled to fight Tito for a third time for the title and unfortunately had stroke like symptoms due to presciption drug that got recalled (Vioxx). It was a shame since his grappling/wrestling had evolved and unlike the previous 2 Tito fights Mezger actually started to fill out his frame and had a LHW frame/weight (he had a good chance of beating Tito).
As for coaching unfortunalely his gym didn't go that great. Lots of artifical arrogance from coaches. Not a great deal of structure. BJJ coach was a complete moron. The best fighters were literally the ones that left the gym (Sean Spencer, Ryan Benoit, Derek Campos, Jason Sampson).
His IQ, technique, and ability to convey lesson plans on his part was elite. Guy had the knowledge and potential to be a Mike Brown level coach but he spent way too much time behind the scenes either running the business or doing other side projects (graduate school for holistic health, being the president of hdnet fights, seminars, running the business aspect of the school).
If someone else ran the gym and he was solely responsible for just showing up and coaching then things would of been alot different.
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I also remember seeing that Most Eligible Bachelor reality show contest in which Mezger was a contestant. It was weird seeing someone from the MMA world in a mainstream TV show at the time.
MMAATHLETE
Fan of MMA before there were fans of MMA
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I'm guessing a lot of newbs on the forum will never even have heard of Guy Mezger. I'm not a fan of Lion's Den, but Guy seemed really cool and I think that dude is a bit of an unsung hero in MMA history.
The easy thing to do is to glance at his 30-13 career record and shrug. One might search for his most notable wins and seeing Tito Ortiz, Yuki Kondo and Semmy Schilt probably wont' blow you away. So what's the big deal? I think the big deal is the key fights he didn't win (or at least didn't get rewarded the win.
The guy had a long Pancrase career, had a short UFC stint, but the his best opportunity to make his name on the MMA scene came in the earlier Pride events. He was constantly getting matched up with guys who are today considered legends and MMA royalty, and I would argue that Guy was just as good as them, but could never catch a break when he needed it.
vs Kazushi Sakuraba
This is Mezger's first high profile fight in Pride. Sakuraba is on an absolute tear at this point of his career coming off 5 submission finishes and a win over Vitor Belfort in his previous 7 fights, and is being talked about as the best p4p fighter in the world at the time. Mezger is strong everywhere tho and bests Sakuraba in the fight. The Pride judges however call it a draw and demand an overtime round. At this point Ken Shamrock (who was Mezger's coach) flips out and tells his fighter to refuse to come out and that he won that fight. The Lions Den crew exists the ring, and Sakuraba wins by default, and thanks to that momentum he then goes on to make history in his next fight when he outlasts Royce in a 90 minute classic and becomes the Gracie Hunter.
There are very few fighters I like as much as Sakuraba, but I honestly can't make a case that he won that fight.
vs Wanderlei Silva
Mezger has now put together a couple of wins since the Sakuraba fight debacle and finds himself matched up with a new force in the Pride organization. Wanderlei is in the prime of his youth, but not quite yet the destroyer he would become, this fight is a big test for him and he will have to bring his A game here.
Mezger starts out great beating Wanderlei to almost every strike, he's landing all kinds of kicks and punches on him early and has him cut pretty good above the eye a minute into the fight. Somewhere midway through the round Wanderlei lands a good strike of his own and now he has Mezger backing up and goes for it. Mezger seems to recover very well and is dodging most of the attack now, but Wanderlei gets him in the corner and throws a headbutt right at Mezger's chin, then follows it up with a couple of punches that drop him and finish the fight.
Now I'm not gonna try to say that Silva wouldn't have won without the headbutt, it certainly looked like he was turning the tide at that point, but the truth is we will never know. Wanderlei Silva would get his first Pride knockout and he would ride that momentum and follow it up with a legendary 16 fight unbeaten streak that cemented him as one of the most feared men in MMA history.
vs. Chuck Liddell
Mezger would bounce back from the Wanderlei loss with a 4 fight win streak. He was now matched up with UFC star Chuck Liddell testing the Pride waters in his debut there. In typical Mezger style he would start off very strong by winning the striking exchanges and giving Chuck nothing to hit for the entire first round while knocking him down and frustrating him the entire round.
Of course in classic Mezger "winning til he lost" fashion, Chuck comes out swinging to begin the second round and finds that chin for a classic knockout. Chuck would follow up the win over Mezger with a legendary career and go on to become one of the great UFC champions.
vs Ricardo Arona
Arona is the new Brazilian in Pride, his first test is a tough one, but Arona already has good experience vs stiff competition with a pair of wins over Jeremy Horn, and arguably a win over the great Fedor Emelianenko (depends under which rules you score the fight). Mezger however proves to be a very difficult puzzle and Arona seems to have no answers for him. The fight wasn't a blowout or anything, but guy seemed to have clearly done more, yet Arona is given the split decision by the judges. The conspiracy theorist in me would say the Japanese wanted to build the fresh new Brazilian who's built like an action figure over a guy who's been around for a while and has several losses already.
vs Rogerio Nogueira
No easy fights for Guy, this time he gets another rising Brazilian star in Lil Nog. Again, same story as the Arona fight, Mezger seems to do more, but judges give a split decision to Nogueira who goes on to become one of the top Pride MW's.
So what's my point?
Just that MMA is a brutal sport man. If you watched his fights this is a guy that had all the gifts and was one of the strongest and most well rounded guys at the time. He gave prime legends some of their toughest fights, and arguably beat most of them. The Sakuraba fight was a pretty blatant robbery, the Arona fight was pretty bad too imo and I thought he should have got the Lil Nog decision too. The headbutt Silva landed before he knocked him out was obviously illegal, but who knows how the fight might have unfolded without it. In the case of Chuck he got beat fair and square, but I guess you could say he won every minute of that fight except for the minute where he got caught and knocked out. But a little more luck here and there, a little better judging, and you wouldn't find many sherdoggers who don't know Guy Mezger. As it is the guy is a forgotten warrior, but hopefully this thread give him some recognition.
I didn't read it all just yet but after glancing over it regardless that is a solid thread made compared to what most people post. Appreciate you taking the time to lay that out like you did with the pictures and gifs etc. Will circle back to this thread in a bit.
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Imagine thinking he wasnt good enough to fight the likes of Anthony Smith because the sport is so "evolved"
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His career was ended by the pharmaceutical industry. There was a big rematch with Tito in the UFC scheduled. Both fighters were training for it. I remember being very excited and talking to Tito about it when I was 22 (we had a mutual friend and I met him a few times 2002-05ish)
At the time, Guy was taking an anti-inflammatory called viox made by Merck and suffered a stroke like affliction. Mercy paid out one of the largest settlements in history and something like 50k ppl died from the drug. Merck fudged a lot of their clinical trials and had hidden data showing vioxx was dangerous.
That is what ended Guy Metzger's career. I worked with him while he was doing commentary at Strikeforce. I never asked how much money he got but it must have been enough to get him to sign something saying that he'd never talk about it.
At the time, Guy was taking an anti-inflammatory called viox made by Merck and suffered a stroke like affliction. Mercy paid out one of the largest settlements in history and something like 50k ppl died from the drug. Merck fudged a lot of their clinical trials and had hidden data showing vioxx was dangerous.
That is what ended Guy Metzger's career. I worked with him while he was doing commentary at Strikeforce. I never asked how much money he got but it must have been enough to get him to sign something saying that he'd never talk about it.
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Oh man that red windbreaker and ponytail... He can't look anymore 1992.
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Really I think his problem was he was too passive, most of his big fights he ended up focused more on shutting down his opponent and when he did hurt someone often he didnt exploit it.
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Guy was Ken's protege, fought well but needed more skills Ken didn't have to teach. His comeback was cut short by severe health problems.
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The breakdown of what happened from Mezger, Quadros one of the judges is talked out here:
https://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/3/Pride-and-Glory-25240
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Again to me it didnt seem to be lack of skill that was the issue to me but a lack of killing instinct, I'd have liked to see Guy training somewhere like Chute Boxe.
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They stood the fighters up when Tito had a very dominant cradle and was kneeing Mezger in the head. They though Mezger tapped but he had not. Still, the restart on the feet caused Tito to shoot in and get guillotined.
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I think he lacked punching power. He had great skills and techniques but is mostly defined by close decisions or comeback losses against the greats. All that indicates he didn’t quite have the punching power to be an atg. Still a prototype for the modern skills set.
