International Haiti has collapsed into Cannibalism. Nayib Bukele says he can fix it

The US was a slave society for 60 years longer than Haiti was.

But yeah, the odds were against them because of the way they started. However, the constant interventions from France and the US are major contributors to its present state. No, it was never going to be Switzerland but it could have easily been another Dominican Republic, Trinidad, Bermuda, etc.
The US was not exclusively made up of slaves, and did not expel the majority of people who weren’t slaves. That’s what I meant by slave society.
 
Haiti can't let the gangs have a seat at the table. El Salvador tried that for many years and would always end up with the gangs breaking promises and commiting more violence. Bukele even had a compromise with the gangs in the beginning of his presidency. When they broke it, he broke them.
 
The gangs aren't really the problem. How are these people getting expensive guns on that island? Nobody wants to talk about removing the Oligarchs who supply the criminal gangs. Those Oligarchs have connections to the US, Israel and other European countries. They even serve as consuls so they have diplomatic immunity in Haiti.
You can say it, it's a jewish dude.
Richest native dude in haiti is a jewish dude who's an honorary consul of israel.

the entire country of Haiti is an extraction mechanism.


Bigio's name appeared in the 2021 Pandora Papers leak of secret offshore company documents by the ICIJ. In an accounting document from the estate of Jeffrey Epstein, Bigio was revealed as the buyer of Epstein's Mercedes Maybach at a price of $132,000.[4] Other leaked documents showed Bigio moving wealth to Miami and Switzerland through offshore companies in different tax havens.[5]


 
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Bukele isn't going to fix the problem without massive number of troops on the ground. Not sure if El Salvador has the military capability to takeover Haiti.

In our hemispshere the US military is probably the only force that has the resources, expeditionary capability and power to do anything.

Somebody should go hide a barrel of oil jerry rigged to a water fountain to get some American attention.
 
You can say it, it's a jewish dude.
Richest native dude in haiti is a jewish dude who's an honorary consul of israel.

the entire country of Haiti is an extraction mechanism.


Bigio's name appeared in the 2021 Pandora Papers leak of secret offshore company documents by the ICIJ. In an accounting document from the estate of Jeffrey Epstein, Bigio was revealed as the buyer of Epstein's Mercedes Maybach at a price of $132,000.[4] Other leaked documents showed Bigio moving wealth to Miami and Switzerland through offshore companies in different tax havens.[5]



The richest Jamaican is also Jewish. Joseph Matalon. It's pretty common.

 
The richest Jamaican is also Jewish. Joseph Matalon. It's pretty common.

didn't know about this dude, but i had heard before about Bigio and it was clear Haiti was a quasi-feudal system of extraction for him and a few others.
 
didn't know about this dude, but i had heard before about Bigio and it was clear Haiti was a quasi-feudal system of extraction for him and a few others.

I just mean this is largely how things are worldwide. Even the 2nd wealthiest Jamaican has mixed Chinese ancestry on both sides, which probably isn't that common. The richest black Jamaicans are typically musicians or members of the Marley family. Then there's Usain Bolt.

Funny enough, the best Israeli sprinter is of west African (Ghanaian) descent.

220px-2022-08-19_European_Championships_2022_%E2%80%93_Men%27s_200_Metres_by_Sandro_Halank%E2%80%93008.jpg
 
Haiti can't let the gangs have a seat at the table. El Salvador tried that for many years and would always end up with the gangs breaking promises and commiting more violence. Bukele even had a compromise with the gangs in the beginning of his presidency. When they broke it, he broke them.
Negotiation with gangs is ridiculous on the face of it. We’re talking about trusting that the most uneducated, impulsive, antisocial people in a society can keep an agreement.
 
This is a non-response because you haven't actually rebutted anything. But you had to make this post because I called you out on your gas lighting bullshit, which is nothing but apologism for French imperialism and racial supremacy.

You thought posting a painting of some mixed people having a good time was effective apologism for Haitian slavery. You are delusional if you really think everyone is going to fall for it. Yes you will get some rightwingers to agree with you but don't assume your simpleton apologism is going to get a pass from others.

And on top of that you had to resort to a strawman argument (i.e. "Evil Whites vs Good Darks")
The fact that he called them "Darks" is a bit of a red flag but maybe that's just me.
 
As we know arguing with irrational people just encourages them.

A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool's back. Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. He that sendeth a message by the hand of a fool cutteth off the feet, and drinketh damage. The legs of the lame are not equal: so is a parable in the mouth of fools. As he that bindeth a stone in a sling, so is he that giveth honour to a fool. As a thorn goeth up into the hand of a drunkard, so is a parable in the mouths of fools. The great God that formed all things both rewardeth the fool, and rewardeth transgressors. As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly. Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

And @Islam Imamate and @MicroBrew have excluded the possibility that they are ignorant and lazy, rather than dishonest, by continuing to Point and Sputter. I have committed a Speechcrime by expressing insufficient fervour for the Ruling Dogma and must be punished and forced to publicly recant!

However partly for the sake of others who read this thread, and mostly out of morbid curiosity, I decided to read the relevant part of the most relevant Wikipedia page and see how badly it destroyed their premise and how long it would take. Bearing in mind that Wikipedia's founder has said it is untrustworthy due to a left bias. This took me 14 minutes. Obviously just reading it and not copying and pasting etc. would have been quicker.


(1) Thousands of slaves found freedom by fleeing from their masters, forming communities of maroons, and raiding isolated plantations. The most famous was Mackandal, a one-armed slave, originally from Guinea, who escaped in 1751. A Vodou Houngan (priest), he united many of the different maroon bands. He spent the next six years staging successful raids and evading capture by the French, reputedly killing over 6,000 people while preaching a fanatic vision of the destruction of white civilization in St. Domingue.

(2) Saint-Domingue also had the largest and wealthiest free population of color in the Caribbean, the gens de couleur (French, "people of color"). The mixed-race community in Saint-Domingue numbered 25,000 in 1789. First-generation gens de couleur were typically the offspring of a male, French slaveowner, and an African slave chosen as a concubine. In the French colonies, the semi-official institution of "plaçage" defined this practice. By this system, the children were free people and could inherit property, thus originating a class of "mulattos" with property and some with wealthy fathers.

(3) Africans who attained freedom also enjoyed status as gens de couleur.

(4) many [mixed race and Black people] accumulated substantial holdings and became slave owners themselves. By 1789, they owned one third of the plantation property and one quarter of the slaves of Saint-Domingue.

(5) in March 1790 the National Assembly granted full civic rights to the gens de couleur

(6) However, the mulatto rebels refused to arm or free their slaves, or to challenge the status of slavery, and their attack was defeated by a force of white militia and black volunteers (including Henri Christophe).

(7) Beginning in September, some thirteen thousand slaves and rebels in the south, led by Romaine-la-Prophétesse, freed slaves and took supplies from and burned plantations, ultimately occupying the area's two major cities, Léogâne and Jacmel...

In March 1792, a coalition of whites and conservative free blacks and forces led by another of the national commissioners, Edmond de Saint-Léger, put down Romaine-la-Prophétesse's revolt after André Rigaud, who led free black confederate forces based near Port-au-Prince, declined to ally with it.

(8) On 29 August 1793, Sonthonax took the radical step of proclaiming the freedom of the slaves in the north province (with severe limits on their freedom). In September and October, emancipation was extended throughout the colony. The French National Convention, the first elected Assembly of the First Republic (1792–1804), on 4 February 1794, under the leadership of Maximilien de Robespierre, abolished slavery by law in France and all its colonies.

The slaves did not immediately flock to Sonthonax's banner, however. Counter-revolutionary planters continued to fight Sonthonax, with support from the British. They were joined by many of the free men of color who opposed the abolition of slavery.

(9) In the meantime, Rigaud had set up a mulatto separatist movement in the south.

(10) By 1801, Toussaint was in control of all of Hispaniola, after conquering French Santo Domingo and proclaiming the abolition of slavery there. He did not, however, proclaim full independence for the country, nor did he seek reprisals against the country's former white slaveholders, convinced that the French would not restore slavery and "that a population of slaves recently landed from Africa could not attain to civilization by 'going it alone.'"

(11) Toussaint, however, asserted so much independence that in 1802, Napoleon sent a massive invasion force, under his brother-in-law Charles Leclerc, to increase French control... With a large expedition that eventually included 40,000 European troops, and receiving help from white colonists and mulatto forces commanded by Alexandre Pétion, a former lieutenant of Rigaud, the French won several victories after severe fighting.

(12) Unlike Toussaint, Dessalines showed little equanimity with regard to the whites. In a final act of retribution, the remaining French were slaughtered by Haitian military forces in a white genocide.

(13) As hopeful as the Haitians, many Poles were seeking union amongst themselves to win back their homeland. As a result, many Polish soldiers admired their enemy and decided to turn on the French army and join the Haitian former slaves, and participated in the Haitian revolution of 1804, supporting the principles of liberty for all the people.

(14) The nation of former slaves remained excluded from the hemisphere's first regional meeting of independent nations, held in Panama in 1826, largely due to the atrocities of the 1804 Haitian Genocide which targeted European men, women and children who resided in Haiti, including those who were favorable to the revolution.

(15) On 1 January 1804, Dessalines proclaimed Haiti an independent nation. Mid-February, Dessalines told some cities (Léogâne, Jacmel, Les Cayes) to prepare for mass massacres. On 22 February 1804, he signed a decree ordering that all whites in all cities should be put to death.


If you read a bit more of the history and put a little thought into it, you would realise or learn that the Black slaves were originally enslaved and sold on by other Blacks, that there were White indentured servants who not only had to do hard labour but were unsuited to the climate, that slavery effectively continued after the revolution, that the British and Spanish killed many Whites and used Black soldiers, that the first independent Emperor of Haiti, Dessalines, who was Black, was killed in a Black vs Mixed Race war, etc. etc. Braveheart is an impeccable historical documentary compared to the simplistic caricature of Saint Domingue's history being peddled by some ITT.

/

As an aside I took a look at the modern slavery stats.

999.png


Seven* out of ten of the worst countries have something in common, and nine out of ten of the best have something in common. Anyone want to guess what?
 
As we know arguing with irrational people just encourages them.

A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool's back. Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. He that sendeth a message by the hand of a fool cutteth off the feet, and drinketh damage. The legs of the lame are not equal: so is a parable in the mouth of fools. As he that bindeth a stone in a sling, so is he that giveth honour to a fool. As a thorn goeth up into the hand of a drunkard, so is a parable in the mouths of fools. The great God that formed all things both rewardeth the fool, and rewardeth transgressors. As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly. Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

And @Islam Imamate and @MicroBrew have excluded the possibility that they are ignorant and lazy, rather than dishonest, by continuing to Point and Sputter. I have committed a Speechcrime by expressing insufficient fervour for the Ruling Dogma and must be punished and forced to publicly recant!

However partly for the sake of others who read this thread, and mostly out of morbid curiosity, I decided to read the relevant part of the most relevant Wikipedia page and see how badly it destroyed their premise and how long it would take. Bearing in mind that Wikipedia's founder has said it is untrustworthy due to a left bias. This took me 14 minutes. Obviously just reading it and not copying and pasting etc. would have been quicker.


(1) Thousands of slaves found freedom by fleeing from their masters, forming communities of maroons, and raiding isolated plantations. The most famous was Mackandal, a one-armed slave, originally from Guinea, who escaped in 1751. A Vodou Houngan (priest), he united many of the different maroon bands. He spent the next six years staging successful raids and evading capture by the French, reputedly killing over 6,000 people while preaching a fanatic vision of the destruction of white civilization in St. Domingue.

(2) Saint-Domingue also had the largest and wealthiest free population of color in the Caribbean, the gens de couleur (French, "people of color"). The mixed-race community in Saint-Domingue numbered 25,000 in 1789. First-generation gens de couleur were typically the offspring of a male, French slaveowner, and an African slave chosen as a concubine. In the French colonies, the semi-official institution of "plaçage" defined this practice. By this system, the children were free people and could inherit property, thus originating a class of "mulattos" with property and some with wealthy fathers.

(3) Africans who attained freedom also enjoyed status as gens de couleur.

(4) many [mixed race and Black people] accumulated substantial holdings and became slave owners themselves. By 1789, they owned one third of the plantation property and one quarter of the slaves of Saint-Domingue.

(5) in March 1790 the National Assembly granted full civic rights to the gens de couleur

(6) However, the mulatto rebels refused to arm or free their slaves, or to challenge the status of slavery, and their attack was defeated by a force of white militia and black volunteers (including Henri Christophe).

(7) Beginning in September, some thirteen thousand slaves and rebels in the south, led by Romaine-la-Prophétesse, freed slaves and took supplies from and burned plantations, ultimately occupying the area's two major cities, Léogâne and Jacmel...

In March 1792, a coalition of whites and conservative free blacks and forces led by another of the national commissioners, Edmond de Saint-Léger, put down Romaine-la-Prophétesse's revolt after André Rigaud, who led free black confederate forces based near Port-au-Prince, declined to ally with it.

(8) On 29 August 1793, Sonthonax took the radical step of proclaiming the freedom of the slaves in the north province (with severe limits on their freedom). In September and October, emancipation was extended throughout the colony. The French National Convention, the first elected Assembly of the First Republic (1792–1804), on 4 February 1794, under the leadership of Maximilien de Robespierre, abolished slavery by law in France and all its colonies.

The slaves did not immediately flock to Sonthonax's banner, however. Counter-revolutionary planters continued to fight Sonthonax, with support from the British. They were joined by many of the free men of color who opposed the abolition of slavery.

(9) In the meantime, Rigaud had set up a mulatto separatist movement in the south.

(10) By 1801, Toussaint was in control of all of Hispaniola, after conquering French Santo Domingo and proclaiming the abolition of slavery there. He did not, however, proclaim full independence for the country, nor did he seek reprisals against the country's former white slaveholders, convinced that the French would not restore slavery and "that a population of slaves recently landed from Africa could not attain to civilization by 'going it alone.'"

(11) Toussaint, however, asserted so much independence that in 1802, Napoleon sent a massive invasion force, under his brother-in-law Charles Leclerc, to increase French control... With a large expedition that eventually included 40,000 European troops, and receiving help from white colonists and mulatto forces commanded by Alexandre Pétion, a former lieutenant of Rigaud, the French won several victories after severe fighting.

(12) Unlike Toussaint, Dessalines showed little equanimity with regard to the whites. In a final act of retribution, the remaining French were slaughtered by Haitian military forces in a white genocide.

(13) As hopeful as the Haitians, many Poles were seeking union amongst themselves to win back their homeland. As a result, many Polish soldiers admired their enemy and decided to turn on the French army and join the Haitian former slaves, and participated in the Haitian revolution of 1804, supporting the principles of liberty for all the people.

(14) The nation of former slaves remained excluded from the hemisphere's first regional meeting of independent nations, held in Panama in 1826, largely due to the atrocities of the 1804 Haitian Genocide which targeted European men, women and children who resided in Haiti, including those who were favorable to the revolution.

(15) On 1 January 1804, Dessalines proclaimed Haiti an independent nation. Mid-February, Dessalines told some cities (Léogâne, Jacmel, Les Cayes) to prepare for mass massacres. On 22 February 1804, he signed a decree ordering that all whites in all cities should be put to death.


If you read a bit more of the history and put a little thought into it, you would realise or learn that the Black slaves were originally enslaved and sold on by other Blacks, that there were White indentured servants who not only had to do hard labour but were unsuited to the climate, that slavery effectively continued after the revolution, that the British and Spanish killed many Whites and used Black soldiers, that the first independent Emperor of Haiti, Dessalines, who was Black, was killed in a Black vs Mixed Race war, etc. etc. Braveheart is an impeccable historical documentary compared to the simplistic caricature of Saint Domingue's history being peddled by some ITT.

/

As an aside I took a look at the modern slavery stats.

999.png


Seven* out of ten of the worst countries have something in common, and nine out of ten of the best have something in common. Anyone want to guess what?

Spare us your religious speil, as if that somehow gives you apologism some sort of gravitas.

-
What are you implying by this comment? What "Black" slavers are you referring to?

If you read a bit more of the history and put a little thought into it, you would realise or learn that the Black slaves were originally enslaved and sold on by other Blacks,

-

Since nowhere in my previous posts have I said that slavery was unique to European colonial powers what is the point of bring up slavery in other parts of the world, notably the Arab Islamic MENA region?
 
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Guns and weapons trafficked from US fueling Haiti gang violence​

Experts say most guns smuggled from states with lax firearms laws such as Florida, Arizona and Georgia

SNES_Wild_Guns_cover_art.png

As Haiti has again plunged into violent chaos, images of gang members bearing high-powered rifles, pump-action shotguns or automatic weapons in the streets of Port-au-Prince have become ubiquitous.

But this weaponry is not made in Haiti, a country with no firearms or ammunition manufacturing capabilities.

It is an arsenal that largely comes directly from the US, with most guns, experts say, likely to have originated from states with lax firearm laws, and many trafficked into Haiti from Florida.

WildGunsSNES-610.jpg

This clandestine trade has left Haiti’s gangs with a vast cache of illegal arms and much greater firepower than the country’s dispirited and underfunded police force.


A 2020 estimate published by Haiti’s disarmament commission estimated there could be as many as 500,000 small arms in the country, with just 38,000 of those legally registered. The number, analysts say, is now likely to be even higher following an uptick in trafficking operations in recent years.

A large portion of these, said Robert Muggah, a security expert and co-founder of the Igarapé Institute security thinktank, are obtained in the US by straw purchasers (buyers who obtain the guns on behalf of the smugglers). The weapons are largely bought in states with weak gun regulations such as Florida, Arizona, Texas and Georgia.

“Easily accessible firearms from the US are one of several factors that are deepening Haiti’s instability,” Muggah said. “The abundance of high-powered rifles, handguns and ammunition is dramatically amplifying the power of criminal gangs who easily outgun Haiti’s depleted national police and modest security agencies. They are also playing a key role in driving-up high rates of sexual violence, violent assaults, kidnapping and internal displacement.”

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A number of recent seizures have laid bare the relative ease with which traffickers operate. In February, US prosecutors secured guilty pleas for two senior members of the 400 Mawozo – the gang which became internationally notorious with a 2021 kidnapping of 17 Christian missionaries from Ohio who were visiting an orphanage in Port-au-Prince.

Investigators discovered an arsenal of at least 24 firearms including AK-47s, AR-15s, an M4 carbine rifle and a military grade .50 caliber sniper rifle, following purchases at several gun shops in the Florida cities of Miami, Orlando and Pompano Beach, according to an unsealed indictment.

Joly Germine, a 31-year-old leader of 400 Mawozo, directed specific requests for high-powered weapons via WhatsApp messages sent from a Haitian prison. The requests were made to US citizens in Florida, including Germain’s romantic partner, and the weapons were then stuffed in garbage bags, loaded into large barrels and hidden under “clothes, shoes and Gatorade” ready for shipment.

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In July 2022, authorities in Haiti seized a haul of 17 semiautomatic weapons, a 12 gauge shotgun, four pistols and 15,000 rounds of ammunition stuffed in a shipment from Florida and bound for a Haitian Episcopal church, which enjoys certain customs exemptions.

“None of the smuggling techniques or concealment methods are innovative, unique or require expertise,” said Matt Schroeder, a senior researcher at Small Arms Survey. “To the extent that the traffickers succeed, it is because of the massive volume of goods that move across borders and the difficulty of thoroughly screening every shipment.”

US authorities have made efforts to ratchet up enforcement in recent years, including expanding homeland security operations in Florida, the creation of a new regional taskforce with other Caribbean community states, as well as harsher punishments for straw purchases included in bipartisan gun laws from 2022.

But, said Muggah, the results, while making some headway, are probably only scratching the surface.

“It is widely assumed that authorities in both countries are only seizing a fraction of the total volume of firearms and ammunition entering the country, either by land, air or sea,” he said.

Crucially, the Haitian government’s customs and border forces remain chronically under-resourced. A recent report published by the UN’s office on drugs and crime found that Haiti’s national police border patrol unit has just 294 officers, while the country’s coast guard has only 181 personnel and a single operational vessel. Haiti has 1,770km of coastline and a 392km land-border with the Dominican Republic.

As a result there has been a proliferation in routes of illegal arms traffic, according to a number of recent UN security council reports reviewed by the Guardian. These include shipments from Florida into Port-au-Prince and to the northern cities of Port-de-Paix and Cap-Haïtien, and land smuggling routes over the border with the Dominican Republic following shipments made to two key ports.

UN researchers have also identified 11 clandestine airstrips throughout the country, many of which were developed for humanitarian purposes following a catastrophic earthquake in 2010 but are now barely monitored. Some, according to satellite images referred to in the report, are contained “within large private properties”.

The UN security council report, published in January, cautions that there are as many as 30 US registered private aircraft based in Haiti, which are difficult to track if they travel below 18,000 feet as Federal Aviation Administration regulations mean they do not require official flight plans.

“The reality is that so long as there is high supply and demand for firearms and ammunition, they will continue to be trafficked from the US to its neighbors, including in Haiti,” said Muggah. “This is not just because of the tens of thousands of firearms retail outlets in the US, but also the persistent appetite from the hundreds of criminal gangs across the Caribbean.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/14/haiti-gang-violence-us-guns-smuggling

- As i thought., All USA fault, those haitians would never get guns from another place!:rolleyes:
 
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