International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

[Rod1]

Absolutely, I've seen them try at times, and others it seems like they have no regard at all, completely inconsistent. Some of their officers, soldiers need to face some jail time and sanctions need to be placed on them. Otherwise, they'll continue to be lax.

They have a very "American Cop" attitude to the whole ordeal no disciplinary actions whatsoever even in the most egregious cases.

 

[Ruv]

 

[moreorless87]

Well, there's no need to show regret then if they can do whatever they want without consequence.

There's a tipping point, the Biden admin already refused to veto a UN resolution against Israel, a move unheard of in the past. Biden's team is fully aware of their base and how they feel about this war, election is drawing near and I think Netanyahu is smart enough to avoid this kind of brinkmanship. Who really knows though.

They do operate within "some" limits but honestly those limits are looking pretty dam weak given how many supposed "red lines" they've crossed without significant consequence.

Again personally to me it looks like they have strong support from all the politicians likely to hold power in the foreseeable future in the US, UK and Germany. The UN vote and the Israeli reaction to it honestly I suspect may well have just been a bit of political theatre given that the Biden admin is it anything stepping up military support for them.

As I said I think the unknown is that were in a situation were public opinion is turning against Israeli actions but politicians are increasingly moving out of step with it, how that ends I think is hard to say.

 

[Snubnoze707]

So now you, why do you think Israeli officials including Netanyahu are expressing regret if they meant to do this, and don't care about world opinion?

Because expressing "regret" is meaningless, as is having the IDF investe themselves, and within a week this will all be forgotten about and he'll continue on business as usual, as it has been happening since the siege on Gaza started. It's not like this is the first incident of something like this happening, this kind of stuff HAS been happening regularly, they claim they will investigate it, then everyone moves on. Whether Netanyahu cares about world opinion or not is such a pointless debate to be having. It doesn't matter, they are still committing war crimes and they are not slowing down whatsoever.

 

[kflo]

They do operate within "some" limits but honestly though limits are looking pretty dam weak given how many supposed "red lines" they've crossed without significant consiquence.

Again personally to me it looks like they have strong support from all the politicians likely to hold power in the foreseeable future in the US, UK and Germany. The UN vote and the Israeli reaction to it honestly I suspect may well have just been a bit of political theatre given that the Biden admin is it anything stepping up military support for them.

As I said I think the unknown is that were in a situation were public opinion is turning against Israeli actions but politicians are increasingly moving out of step with it, how that ends I think is hard to say.

What would you want to see happen?

 

[sangreporsangre]

Absolutely insane.

 

[moreorless87]

What would you want to see happen?

The US, UK, Germany, etc put significant pressure on the Israeli's to stop the mass slaughter and other war crimes were now seeing.

 

[Anewt]

Every "martyr" is a terrorist

Martyr

noun
a person who is killed because of their religious or other beliefs.
"the first Christian martyr

@Chad R. Thundercock

They refer to everyone killed in the conflict as martyrs, including babies. I find the usage of the term... troubling.

martyr​

1 of 2

noun​

mar·tyr ˈmär-tər

Synonyms of martyr
1
: a person who voluntarily suffers death as the penalty of witnessing to and refusing to renounce a religion

2
: a person who sacrifices something of great value and especially life itself for the sake of principle
a martyr to the cause of freedom


3
: VICTIM
especially : a great or constant sufferer
a martyr to asthma all his life.

martyr

2 of 2
verb
martyred; martyring; martyrs
transitive verb

1
: to put to death for adhering to a belief, faith, or profession
2
: to inflict agonizing pain on : TORTURE


It's just language and how people use the word. Chad's version is martyr means terrorist. [ most definitely not my interpretation of the word ] edit . - unless it's sarcasm

What does it mean to you? Someone who dies willingly for a religious cause ?


For me. My use more revolved around the person [ martyr] being used to represent the fight / conflict to inspire rallying point for those remaining. ] which was my take on the word . Which is incorrect

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

That's the video of an attack drone not a surveillance one.

Check this source.

IDF to create joint HQ for Gaza aid after killing of World Food Kitchen workers

Initial probe results of IDF attack on three trucks to come out within days

www.jpost.com

They were following a Hamas militant, then they believed the guy may had got inside one of those trucks, they decided to murder everyone as a result.

Extremely poor and lax ROE which i guess Israel can always spin as "they were helping a terrorist" which would have probably worked if the people in the car were Muslims.

Claiming a bunch of Europeans and Australians are Hamas supporters is harder though.

I mean its not beyond the scope of the possibility, i mean the US bombed the crap out of a hospital in Afghanistan but the circumstances were different, they were responding to a firefight call, the plane was ancient and failed mid air and the people just decided to eyeball a target, which of course led to the unfortunate events, also the AC-130 was disciplined for it.

If that's actually what was found to have happened, then unless that militant was Sinwar himself there should be prosecution.

 

[sangreporsangre]

 

[kflo]

The US, UK, Germany, etc put significant pressure on the Israeli's to stop the mass slaughter and other war crimes were now seeing.

So a ceasefire and Israeli withdrawal?

 

[moreorless87]

So a ceasefire and Israeli withdrawal?

Yeah that would be a good start followed by serious pressure to move towards a two state solution not the lip service we've seen previously.

 

[KnightTemplar]

The US, UK, Germany, etc put significant pressure on the Israeli's to stop the mass slaughter and other war crimes were now seeing.

Of those three nations, only America has the ability to put significant pressure on Israel. And there is no way Biden will risk doing that in the run up to an election.

 

[KnightTemplar]

So a ceasefire and Israeli withdrawal?

There's as much chance of that happening as there is of me nailing Sydney Sweeny.

 

[moreorless87]

Look at the end result as well, a massive reduction in the amount of aid reaching Gaza as agencies pull out for fear of the same happening to them.

Seems pretty likely to me this was a very deliberate move with the above aim.

 

[kflo]

Yeah that would be a good start followed by serious pressure to move towards a two state solution not the lip service we've seen previously.

And the pesky issue that Hamas is still the governing body of Gaza?

 

[moreorless87]

There's as much chance of that happening as there is of me nailing Sydney Sweeny.

A massive reason why theres little chance of it happening is because theres no pressure being put on the Israelis. We hear "liberals" claim that we simply can't control Israel but the reality is we've simply not tried, threaten to cut military support, threaten sanctions, etc.

A few very weak critical statements don't amount to much and IMHO are really more just PR to try and keep the public from reacting more negatively than they are already to whats happening.

 

[KnightTemplar]

A massive reason why theres little chance of it happening is because theres no pressure being put on the Israelis. We hear "liberals" claim that we simply can't control Israel but the reality is we've simply not tried, threaten to cut military support, threaten sanctions, etc.

A few very weak critical statements don't amount to much and IMHO are really more just PR to try and keep the public from reacting more negatively than they are already to whats happening.

Again: it's a US Election year. There is no way Biden risks losing the Jewish-American vote. He'll pay lip-service, but in the end, he won't put enough pressure on Israel to effect any meaningful change.

 

[Rod1]

So a ceasefire and Israeli withdrawal?

Humanitarian corridors and more strict ROE, better communication channels, etc, etc.

 

[Rod1]

A massive reason why theres little chance of it happening is because theres no pressure being put on the Israelis. We hear "liberals" claim that we simply can't control Israel but the reality is we've simply not tried, threaten to cut military support, threaten sanctions, etc.

A few very weak critical statements don't amount to much and IMHO are really more just PR to try and keep the public from reacting more negatively than they are already to whats happening.

A lot of liberals would rather have Donald Trump win than have Democratic party put pressure on Israel.

Just look at Fetterman, personally i want Biden to win because of Ukraine, and i would rather Biden not be burdened with the political cost of the war in Gaza.