International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

[kflo]

Unreasonable?!?

How is statehood, U.S. recognition (and U.N. to follow), and a start to your own nation unreasonable?

i said the offer was reasonable, and what they (the palestinian's) were holding out for was unreasonable.....

 

[Rholk]

No thats an insult, no wonder they started the 2nd intifada

And look where that got 'm

I could somewhat understand people starting wars if they're actually good at it and succeed, like at any level.
They just keep getting hammered and end up with less everytime they launch a terror attack.

 

[kflo]

And look where that got 'm

I could somewhat understand people starting wars if they're actually good at it and succeed, like at any level.
They just keep getting hammered and end up with less everytime they launch a terror attack.

like i said, these people don't give 2 fucks about palestinian's. they STILL think it's better that they didn't agree, despite 2 more decades (and counting) of continued suffering / violence. that's an acceptable price to them to be able to point the finger at israel. was better to turn down the deal and elect hamas...........

 

[Siver!]

Hamas have agreed to a ceasefire proposed by Egypt and Qatar.

Children celebrating in the streets.

I doubt Israel will accept it, as they are eager for blood in Rafah as part of their revenge campaign.

Those children will just have to suffer if it's down to Netanyahu.

 

[Halifax]

I just hope Hamas alllows the civilians to listen to Israel's calls for evacuation

That's a lot to hope for. Hamas just bragged about firing rockets from the humanitarian aid checkpoint and killing Israeli soldiers and then dared Israel to do something about it.

The best hope right now would be the civilians having enough and lynching hamas and handing them over

 

[Siver!]

That's a lot to hope for. Hamas just bragged about firing rockets from the humanitarian aid checkpoint and killing Israeli soldiers and then dared Israel to do something about it.

The best hope right now would be the civilians having enough and lynching hamas and handing them over

Hamas are pathetic.

All of the adults making decisions in this conflict are pretty pathetic too.

All clinging desperately to power while people die, then blaming everyone else for it.

 

[mjfan23]

What I'm saying is that I believe that it's better to have a starting point with gains than to hold onto nothing.

This!

The all or nothing approach (on either side) will never get us to a solution. Even if the solution is made on great compromises it’s a solution!

other wise the leadership and its principles or approach have blood on their hands too.

You have to weigh the opportunity cost and risk of not accepting for your nation and its people too, unfortunately.

However it’s also funny how those asking Palestinians leaders to be reasonable and to accept the reality are funding and cheer leading Ukrainians to their massacre against an opponent who enjoys an equal level of power and military might advantage over the Ukrainians. But that suit our “strategic needs” so criteria be damned

 

[Strychnine]

You said Palestinians "absolutely" have a right to a state. This is synonymous with "deserve." I quoted you, that's precisely why we're in this exchange. So, yes. Deserve does have everything to do with it.



So the Palestinians absolutely have a right to a state, but they also should just shelf this right that you believe they have when they are offered something that isn't the thing they absolutely have a right to, because that's better than nothing.

That's a pretty silly position, mate. It contradicts itself. What does kt mean to absolutely have a right to something that they can't actually expect to claim? I think you'll find that actually isn't what that word means.

Imagine if human rights were adjudicated by this line of "thinking" - oh yes, you were wrongly imprisoned and your freedom is your right, but if the jailer instead of giving you freedom, says that you're allowed to lppk out the window once a week, you should just accept this because it's a start.

Jim Crow, lynchings, beatings, castrations, church bombings. All of those were endured so that Black people in the U.S. could get a start at civil rights. Was it perfect? No, but it was a building block to what we have now.

I'd rather have a START than nothing. But since Arafat/Palestine couldn't get ALL of what they wanted off the rip (in a negotiation), they said "NO." Now, they have perpetual intifada and the horrors of war they are causing to be inflicted on their populace.

It just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Siver!]

Jim Crow, lynchings, beatings, castrations, church bombings. All of those were endured so that Black people in the U.S. could get a start at civil rights. Was it perfect? No, but it was a building block to what we have now.

I'd rather have a START than nothing. But since Arafat/Palestine couldn't get ALL of what they wanted off the rip (in a negotiation), they said "NO." Now, they have perpetual intifada and the horrors of war they are causing to be inflicted on their populace.

It just doesn't make any sense.

Problem with this analogy is, black people were slaves in America.

Palestinians aren't slaves in Israel, but have to endure terrible conditions and treatment even outside of outright warfare.

We should be at a stage where we recognise Palestinians are just as human as Israelis and deserve access to water and other basic rights.

Israel hasn't accepted that, so there is never going to be peace. Black people weren't going to be slaves in America forever, nor will Palestinians be Israel's subjugates forever.

It's that simple.


Other than that, I agree with you, Palestine need to start playing the game. Politics not war.

 

[iwannabeadored]

Your opinion.

lol strtchnine, give me your house. You can live there but you can’t control how much you spend on groceries, you can’t make changes to your house without my permission, you can’t choose the color of your sheets. Deal?

 

[Strychnine]

Problem with this analogy is, black people were slaves in America.

Palestinians aren't slaves in Israel, but have to endure terrible conditions and treatment even outside of outright warfare.

We should be at a stage where we recognise Palestinians are just as human as Israelis and deserve access to water and other basic rights.

Israel hasn't accepted that, so there is never going to be peace. Black people weren't going to be slaves in America forever, nor will Palestinians be Israel's subjugates forever.

It's that simple.


Other than that, I agree with you, Palestine need to start playing the game. Politics not war.

Very well put. Thank you brother.

 

[Strychnine]

lol strtchnine, give me your house. You can live there but you can’t control how much you spend on groceries, you can’t make changes to your house without my permission, you can’t choose the color of your sheets. Deal?

You're talking to someone who didn't have indoor plumbing until the age of 13. I've already taken that deal and now (so to speak), I have my own Nation.

It beats begging for quarters and abject poverty like I used to have.

 

[Halifax]

lol strtchnine, give me your house. You can live there but you can’t control how much you spend on groceries, you can’t make changes to your house without my permission, you can’t choose the color of your sheets. Deal?

That comparison needs some context. In this case, if Strichnine's house was his own Petoria, and he was using 75% of his grocery money to buy bazooka's and firearms to deploy on his rooftops and was within a mile of the white house and planned on attacking at the first opportunity so he could indiscriminately kill both US citizens and us leadership for Allah's takeover of the US.

Yeah, that's about accurate.

 

[kflo]

Problem with this analogy is, black people were slaves in America.

Palestinians aren't slaves in Israel, but have to endure terrible conditions and treatment even outside of outright warfare.

We should be at a stage where we recognise Palestinians are just as human as Israelis and deserve access to water and other basic rights.

Israel hasn't accepted that, so there is never going to be peace. Black people weren't going to be slaves in America forever, nor will Palestinians be Israel's subjugates forever.

It's that simple.


Other than that, I agree with you, Palestine need to start playing the game. Politics not war.

we also have to recognize israel's right to put their own national security first. and that requires restrictions. and if that's not acceptable, then that's not israel's fault.

yes, politics, not war. commitment to peace first. reject hamas. reject terrorism. accept that israel isn't theirs and isn't going anywhere.

 

[kflo]

That comparison needs some context. In this case, if Strichnine's house was his own Petoria, and he was using 75% of his grocery money to buy bazooka's and firearms to deploy on his rooftops and was within a mile of the white house and planned on attacking at the first opportunity so he could indiscriminately kill both US citizens and us leadership for Allah's takeover of the US.

Yeah, that's about accurate.

the head of household is a serial killer. he just wants you to keep your doors open and he wants full access to weapons. any issues?

 

[Stump]

Jim Crow, lynchings, beatings, castrations, church bombings. All of those were endured so that Black people in the U.S. could get a start at civil rights. Was it perfect? No, but it was a building block to what we have now.

I'd rather have a START than nothing. But since Arafat/Palestine couldn't get ALL of what they wanted off the rip (in a negotiation), they said "NO." Now, they have perpetual intifada and the horrors of war they are causing to be inflicted on their populace.

It just doesn't make any sense.

But dude, Jim crow lynchings, castrations and church bombings were bad. We can do better. That's the point. You're not claiming that unacceptable dehumanization and murders are merely a part of a people's natural progress of achieving the rights they have, are you?

Again, that's not what "rights" means. It doesn't mean, yes you can eventually get this after you suffer dehumanization and murder, that's an aspiration, not a right.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

Hamas announced the agreed to a ceasefire, only it wasn’t the one on the table. Seems Israel is calling bluff of last minute optics by having “ceasefire” reported, and tanks are now entering Rafah, along with other ground forces and air strikes continue

Edit: forgot to add source, but also saw other posts and videos

 

[Joe_Armstrong]

Pro pally tent camps now on the campus of Amsterdam universities.
Only almost none of the 'protesters' speaks Dutch.

 

[Ruv]

 

[sangreporsangre]