Has the Democrat Party gone more left wing/liberal the last 20 yrs?

[Jack V Savage]

We're dealing with an idea made up of several different contributors.

Also, I said the overall trend. Not necessarily the trend today. The overall trend of the past decades - the past century - has been towards classical liberalism.

Is it classical liberalism? No. But the overall trend has moved towards that direction.

As long as we can at least admit that over the past 40 years, the GOP has trended away from anything that could reasonably be called classical liberalism and that the current trend is toward economic royalism, we're good.

 

[Fawlty]

Chomsky pretty much nailed one of the major factors as to why Trump won. And this was in 2011.

You could probably guess that I think it's really stupid to primarily blame the left for a movement that emerged from the right. That's just textbook stupid, really. The kind of stupid that gets conned over and over again.

 

[WiolentOne]

As long as we can at least admit that over the past 40 years, the GOP has trended away from anything that could reasonably be called classical liberalism and that the current trend is toward economic royalism, we're good.

You wouldn't deny that they are advocates of the free market for the proletariat.

 

[WiolentOne]

You could probably guess that I think it's really stupid to primarily blame the left for a movement that emerged from the right. That's just textbook stupid, really. The kind of stupid that gets conned over and over again.

I'm guessing Chomskys critique of the left flew right by you.

 

[bobgeese]

LOL at anyone who voted no.


They've gone so far left they're losing the northeast.

 

[JonnyRingo84]

I think so. Even the Clintons in the 90's were for strong borders, not Islam apologists and Islamophobia fighters and not pushing the LGBTQ agenda on children that we see today.


And I would say that they are the reason this country is so divided. The Democrat Party has gone so far left on many issues, there is no common ground on some of these.

Even back in the 90's many Democrats could agree that borders should be secure and don't have transgender storytime for children at the library.


Anyway, Yes or No, and explain your answer.

its become more american than apple pie to say...

"its all the other side's fault. its because of them we're so divided."

look in the mirror. its everyone's fault. its msnbc AND fox's (most watched name in news) fault. its cnn AND breitbart's fault.

and as for the OP question, LBJ and FDR make obama look like ron paul.

/thread

 

[wonderbread]

I think so. Even the Clintons in the 90's were for strong borders, not Islam apologists and Islamophobia fighters and not pushing the LGBTQ agenda on children that we see today.


And I would say that they are the reason this country is so divided. The Democrat Party has gone so far left on many issues, there is no common ground on some of these.

Even back in the 90's many Democrats could agree that borders should be secure and don't have transgender storytime for children at the library.


Anyway, Yes or No, and explain your answer.

Both parties have moved to the extremes. This is what has fucked up politics. These asswads have made a bad name for the mainstream sensible ones.

 

[ripskater]

Both parties have moved to the extremes. This is what has fucked up politics. These asswads have made a bad name for the mainstream sensible ones.

I would say that Republicans have gotten more liberal also in the last 20 years. But they haven't gone wacko liberal/left.

 

[wonderbread]

I would say that Republicans have gotten more liberal also in the last 20 years. But they haven't gone wacko liberal/left.

I’m guessing you’re a Republican?

 

[ripskater]

I’m guessing you’re a Republican?

I'm more conservative than republicans.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Shelby Steele said it best. The Left was correct in pointing out the hypocrisy in the West. The problem is that the Left has now made an ideology of making up for the past which is something that is not possible.

"The genius of the Left was to unveil the tragedy of American hypocrisy and evil. The Left's downfall will be it's overreaching efforts to redeem the nation of those evils. The Left will fail as long as it keeps trying to fashion an ideology in reaction to America's past sins."
-Shelby Steele from SHAME: How America's Past Sins Have Polarized Our Country

 

[carlos cadona]

Everyone has gone left in the past 20 years. In 97 things that would have been political suicide to support, like gay marriage are now accepted by around 64% of the country.

 

[Lead]

The country has polarized in general. Both parties are farther to their extreme side then they originally were.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

If you were intelligent enough to actually know what I was talking about, that post was referring to automation and AI leading us to a point of post-scarcity where labor and money have no meaning.

Please feel free to lay down your expertise and tell me where i'm wrong instead of sniping quotes like a retard and exposing yourself.

This is just Marxism v2.0.

It's the same old Communists dictatorship, but with the fantasy that some magical robot/program can replace the human dictator, and this will somehow bring about utopia.

This is fundamentally a child's fantasy. The desire for all needs to be taken care of, without having to actually comprehend how to take care of those needs.

Falsedawn, you're given life, you're not giving the amenities to support this life. Those you must earn.

The fantasy of a "post-scarcity" world is the dream of having food fall into your mouth for the price of simply opening it. There is a time in all of our lives where we must all put away such childish things.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

Can you explain the difference between the right and the left? What is the variable that separates them?

Those on the right, acknowledge the fact that humans are imperfect creatures. This means that human institutions will also be imperfect, prone to every form of corruption imaginable. Given this fact, institutions such as government should never be allowed to grow too large. The larger the institution, the greater the potential for corruption.

To be a leftist is to believe in the perfectibility of human institutions. The left operates under the idea that if only a few more laws, and a few more regulations are imposed upon everyone, then these human institutions can somehow be made "perfect".

 

[Jack V Savage]

You wouldn't deny that they are advocates of the free market for the proletariat.

Depends how you define that, I guess. But that's quite a bit off from the earlier point.

its become more american than apple pie to say...

"its all the other side's fault. its because of them we're so divided."

look in the mirror. its everyone's fault. its msnbc AND fox's (most watched name in news) fault. its cnn AND breitbart's fault.

and as for the OP question, LBJ and FDR make obama look like ron paul.

/thread

The fact that you have to compare bland centrist news with straight up gov't propaganda that doesn't even try to be balanced to make your point undermines it severely.

It's not about blame for polarization, either. Disagreement isn't necessarily bad, and people have legitimate reasons to disagree. And our system is designed to be difficult to change when there is disagreement. But the existence of an alternative reality structure like the right-wing media--something that is NOT paralleled on the left--causes huge distortions in the discussion. For example, instead of discussing solutions to climate change from different ideological perspectives, we have people who ridiculously deny that it's even happening or that there's anything that can be done. It's not "unbiased" or objective to pretend that this isn't happening, that the NY Times is no different from Infowars or that CNN is equivalent to Breitbart, or that actual left-wing equivalents to Breitbart like PoliticusUSA have similar followings or levels of respect from people on their side.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Those on the right, acknowledge the fact that humans are imperfect creatures. This means that human institutions will also be imperfect, prone to every form of corruption imaginable. Given this fact, institutions such as government should never be allowed to grow too large. The larger the institution, the greater the potential for corruption.

To be a leftist is to believe in the perfectibility of human institutions. The left operates under the idea that if only a few more laws, and a few more regulations are imposed upon everyone, then these human institutions can somehow be made "perfect".

This is a little confused. The liberal belief is that because people are imperfect creatures, we can't simply demand better behavior and expect to get it. We need institutions that provide positive and negative incentives for behaviors people want or don't want and that check natural human flaws. Hence liberal support for market-based economies, but also support for various regulations, and liberal support for democracy with protection of rights and divided power. No one expects perfection, but the idea is that well-designed institutions limit the harm of imperfection.

Falsedawn, you're given life, you're not giving the amenities to support this life. Those you must earn.

Some of us are just given businesses to run, which we "earn" simply by being born, though.

 

[Falsedawn]

This is just Marxism v2.0.

It's the same old Communists dictatorship, but with the fantasy that some magical robot/program can replace the human dictator, and this will somehow bring about utopia.

This is fundamentally a child's fantasy. The desire for all needs to be taken care of, without having to actually comprehend how to take care of those needs.

Falsedawn, you're given life, you're not giving the amenities to support this life. Those you must earn.

The fantasy of a "post-scarcity" world is the dream of having food fall into your mouth for the price of simply opening it. There is a time in all of our lives where we must all put away such childish things.

The worst part about you is that while you lack insight into basically every topic you post about, you see it fit to bring that lack of insight from a position of authority, as if the fact that you lack even foundational knowledge isn't readily apparent.

Your posts in this thread are evidence enough of that. Stick to farming.

 

[Jack V Savage]

The worst part about you is that while you lack insight into basically every topic you post about, you see it fit to bring that lack of insight from a position of authority, as if the fact that you lack even foundational knowledge isn't readily apparent.

Your posts in this thread are evidence enough of that. Stick to farming.

Hey, he listens to Molyneux. That makes him an expert on everything and justifies hatred toward everyone who disagrees with him.

 

[Rational Poster]

its become more american than apple pie to say...

"its all the other side's fault. its because of them we're so divided."

look in the mirror. its everyone's fault. its msnbc AND fox's (most watched name in news) fault. its cnn AND breitbart's fault.

and as for the OP question, LBJ and FDR make obama look like ron paul.

/thread

Fucking Dwight Eisenhower makes Obama look like Ron Paul.