HB's guide to Krav-Maga.

[Human Bass]

For some time I wanted to make this thread, as a Krav-Maga practioner, to help people here who wants to learn this incredible art of self-defense. And also to avoid the mcdojos.

I think it's very important to hightlight the term "self-defense". There is no such thing as a KM tournament.

KM aims to be natural and objective, what doesn't mean there aren't very cool techniques. But those techniques aim to take advatange of biomechanics, so nobody requires to be very strong.

But hey, what I just said doesn't mean that KM ignores conditioning. Much the opposite. KM is very demanding about a good physical conditioning, specially stamina. It's easy to execute the moves well not tired, but a life threating situation doesn't wait for you to sleep 10 hours before happening. If the place you are looking at to train doesn't go hard in the conditioning and warm up, avoid it.

Also avoid any place that promises to teach very advanced and risky techniques as gun defense to beginner. You will have your time to learn those cool tricks, but be patience and work hard, grasshoper.


Q: Does KM have a ranking system?

A: Well, it originally does. It's creator, Imi Litchenfeld, thougt that a belt ranking system was a good way to measure someone's skills and to give the person something to look foward. But it's extremely rigorous in Brazil and Israel, taking about 15 years to reach black belt.

Q: But my KM school doesn't use belts...so what's up with that?

A: It seems to me that in the USA many KM schools decided to abandon belt systems, probably trying to look more modern and not your "usual martial art". But that was not what Imi envisioned.


And I will paste something from other thread.

Good. Do you guys spar with hard contact? Any videos of that?

Im a beginner, but there is sparring in more advanced levels than mine with boxing gloves, but it's not a big aspect of the art since sparring trains you to a situation you can run away most of the time (see the last AS fight :icon_chee ).

The focus of civilian KM is a explosive first reaction to neutralize the threat so you can return home safely, you don't want to trade with your agressor to check who is the best striker. As I guess you know, there is no such thing as a KM tournemant.

Although we learn all the basic strikes (punches, hammerfists, elbows) principles of a more effective striking (turning your hips when punching, squating slightly during an upper, hitting the punch with the index and middle knuckles, etc).

Grappling techniques are safer to do harder, although a full morning and afternoon of knife defense can be a real test to your wrist.

_________________________________

By the way, Darren Levine is a legithm KM instructor.

That "Commando KM" bald guy is not.

If you guys have any questions about KM, I will be glad to try to answer it. I love to ask tricky questions to my instructor, as many here, I don't take propaganda for granted.

 

[oxcart]

Serious question - do you do any live sparring? Obviously that couldn't be knife related, but in general?

 

[Human Bass]

Serious question - do you do any live sparring? Obviously that couldn't be knife related, but in general?

Well, there is knife related sparring. In this case we use fake wooden/plastic knifes that work quite well, since if it touchs you, you can consider yourself "stabbed".

Right now I don't do live sparring yet, but I see more advanced folks doing it during classes, but of course the sparring is limited to some light kickboxing (nobody wants to spar kicks to the groin, can you believe that?!), there is some grappling too.

Of course the higher one's belt, he/she will have the chance of more intense sparring.

 

[YeahBee]

KM aims to be natural and objective, what doesn't mean there aren't very cool techniques. But those techniques aim to take advatange of biomechanics, so nobody requires to be very strong.

Which martial art doesn't do this?

 

[Human Bass]

Which martial art doesn't do this?

TKD is very acrobatic, wrestling relies a lot in raw strengh (not saying there isn't plenty of technique). What I forgot to say is Krav-Maga moves is like improved moves we would by instinct even without training any martial art.

For example, the basic knife defense:

If someone tries to stab you, you naturally flinch and raise your arms above your head. What KM does is to take this natural reaction and just modify it slightly to become an effective defense. Nothing really fancy that you could forget in the heat.

So, KM tries to follow the KISS principle every possible time.

 

[jlagman]

LOL, unarmed knife defense; good way to lose a finger or sever an artery.

 

[Human Bass]

LOL, unarmed knife defense; good way to lose a finger or sever an artery.

Well, if you can run away, it's the best option. The defense is when you can't avoid the attack. Imi saw plenty of times fascist thugs attacking jews with knives and such during his time in Europe, if you get wounded but far from dead, Imi would be already glad.

 

[ironbismark]

that knife defense looks terrible why would you not control the weapon but step in to its range. are you trying to get people killed?

 

[peregrine]

I've heard Krav Maga not holding up well because there is not enough technical sparring.
HB any thoughts on this?


What do you think it has over MMA type training that takes into account street situations and weapons?

 

[peregrine]

that knife defense looks terrible why would you not control the weapon but step in to its range. are you trying to get people killed?

^ one of my concerns as well.

This knife defense looks like the knifer has to be caught off guard or is not ready as how else would you be able to drive his head back over his hips with a single punch.

Another issue I have with that knife defense is it falls into the trap of someone who uses the blade in or is using a double edged knife. If one blocks unsupported with the arm up which is a natural instinct and taken into account by some knifers, and the blade edge is in...
I would not train this technique. For knife = NO. It may work with a club.
To modify the technique-
Use an open palm on the face, which is much more likely to land, easier for head control, greater potential to cover the eyes. Even still I would be hesitant, there are better options available that have a higher percentage of success/survivability.

I do note this is a single picture and example.

More examples and live sparring would be better and help your case of Krav Maga being effective...especially today against the laymen who has been brain washed by the ufc culture.

 

[jlagman]

Well, if you can run away, it's the best option. The defense is when you can't avoid the attack. Imi saw plenty of times fascist thugs attacking jews with knives and such during his time in Europe, if you get wounded but far from dead, Imi would be already glad.

Here's what I don't like about that specific type of training, it generally leads to someone developing a false sense of confidence, unless the dangers of a knife are made absolutely clear.

Hijacked from another self-defense thread in this forum:



The best thing to learn is how to identify potentially dangerous situations and how to avoid them. Generally, if you find yourself trapped in that situation, and have no other choice but to defend yourself with your bare hands, the odds are heavily stacked against you anyways.

 

[quatin]

If you happen to be unarmed versus a knife/gun you will most likely lose. Unarmed to knife and unarmed to gun defense only gives you a chance to survive. It doesn't guarantee nor does it give you a favor in the odds of winning. You learn it, because if you don't know anything you would have no chance. This is why you learn it last in Krav, it's the least beneficial skill for you to learn.

 

[ironbismark]

i understand that it is just one picture and it is hard to determine anything from it. but i have seen some really ugly knife defense's before and this one looks bad and dangerous. all i see in this is you punch the guy in the face and he filet's your forearm. i would gladly get punched in the face to get a chance to cut someone real deep.

 

[Human Bass]

that knife defense looks terrible why would you not control the weapon but step in to its range. are you trying to get people killed?

Because it's incredbly easy to control the weapon without stunting the agressor who is swing a knife in full force first, right?

You are failing to see the defense is defense and attack at the very same time. The moment you block the arm wielding the knife (doing a 90 angle with the forearm to avoid the agressor arm slipping into your ribs) , you also punch the agressor, right in his face, making a disarm easier than it was before or even giving you time to run.

The move is quite simple and goes along the instinct. Forget the looks, but if you prefer some cool looking hapkido twist, feel free to do so.

 

[Human Bass]

Here's what I don't like about that specific type of training, it generally leads to someone developing a false sense of confidence, unless the dangers of a knife are made absolutely clear.

Hijacked from another self-defense thread in this forum:



The best thing to learn is how to identify potentially dangerous situations and how to avoid them. Generally, if you find yourself trapped in that situation, and have no other choice but to defend yourself with your bare hands, the odds are heavily stacked against you anyways.

I agree and every good KM instructor agrees with that. KM is self-defense, not exhibition of skills. I saind in the first page of this thread:

Well, if you can run away, it's the best option. The defense is when you can't avoid the attack. Imi saw plenty of times fascist thugs attacking jews with knives and such during his time in Europe, if you get wounded but far from dead, Imi would be already glad.

 

[ironbismark]

Because it's incredbly easy to control the weapon without stunting the agressor who is swing a knife in full force first, right?

You are failing to see the defense is defense and attack at the very same time. The moment you block the arm wielding the knife (doing a 90 angle with the forearm to avoid the agressor arm slipping into your ribs) , you also punch the agressor, right in his face, making a disarm easier than it was before or even giving you time to run.

The move is quite simple and goes along the instinct. Forget the looks, but if you prefer some cool looking hapkido twist, feel free to do so.

no i get it that its an attack and block at the same time i just think its a bad idea.
like i said i would love to trade a punch in the face for a filleted forearm.
not sure why you think you can do 2 things at once but your opponent cannot.

 

[Human Bass]

I've heard Krav Maga not holding up well because there is not enough technical sparring.
HB any thoughts on this?


What do you think it has over MMA type training that takes into account street situations and weapons?

If you are in a situation you are trading punches with your agressor in a rather balanced way, KM has nothing to do with people play hard boxing. Just get out of the situation or do something that give you a big advantage (bite, use some object around you, snap fingers). It's about survival, fighting is just one aspect of survival.

 

[Human Bass]

no i get it that its an attack and block at the same time i just think its a bad idea.
like i said i would love to trade a punch in the face for a filleted forearm.
not sure why you think you can do 2 things at once but your opponent cannot.

The person wielding the knife usually is quite confident and focused in using in his weapon. I still have to see someone stabbing with one hand and punch with the other. Of course nothing will ever be 100% sure, but better some cuts in the arm than holes in your torso.

But I still have to see a knife defense that is more simple and has a rate of sucess higher than this one.

 

[ironbismark]

The person wielding the knife usually is quite confident and focused in using in his weapon. I still have to see someone stabbing with one hand and punch with the other. Of course nothing will ever be 100% sure, but better some cuts in the arm than holes in your torso.

But I still have to see a knife defense that is more simple and has a rate of sucess higher than this one.

i'm not saying that he is going to punch you. i'm trying to get you to understand that you are giving him your forearm to fillet and your punch is going to cut his gums and loosen a few teeth. its just such a bad idea your opponent isn't going to just stand there he is going to actually use the knife and not pose with it.

and if he is any good at all his back hand will defend your punch not just take it to the face like a sucker. the guy in the picture may as well have his back hand in his pocket for all he is doing with it.

 

[Human Bass]

i'm not saying that he is going to punch you. i'm trying to get you to understand that you are giving him your forearm to fillet and your punch is going to cut his gums and loosen a few teeth. its just such a bad idea your opponent isn't going to just stand there he is going to actually use the knife and not pose with it.

The guy would need a very strong mental game to worry about filleting the blocking arm while eating a punchat the same time. Of course if you block, then punch a littler later, he may be able to pull the knife down, but then, you are doing it wrong.

But why you dont look for a nearby KM instructor and check with him? No matter what we arguee, life example is better.