How are so many amazing grapplers unable to take the fight to the ground?

[sbhatt]

A lack of explosiveness coupled with failing to train takedowns like mad. GSP perfected the art of the takedown...more grapplers need to mirror his development if they want more success.

 

[Verace]

If youre talking the same position i recalled myself, there was no way that would have held when Ortega pulled guard. Also, Ortega was burned out and didnt have the arm strength.
Doesnt really have much with being a master or not.
If early in the round, different story entirely, but Ortega wanted to stand...which i was against, personally.

Yeah, i didnt get ortegas strategy at all for this fight.

I am hoping he addresses it in an interview in the future. I would really love to hear it from him.

 

[Th3PlainTruth**]

Which one of Ortega's fights convinced you he's an elite wrestler or that takedowns are a significant part of his offense?

Do you comprehend what I actually posted?
Go back and read again what i posted, cuz clearly, you have absolute not a CLUE as to what I was saying. That, or you just responded to the wrong person. Otherwise, youre making some shit up.

 

[cade187]

You can train and practice tdd at 100% effort all day long without much risk of injury. It isn't a secret that strikers need to keep the fight standing so they practice it.


Is it that hard to understand?

Way more injuries happen while training grappling than striking.

 

[Coconutwater]

Well how do you define "main strength"? TS seems to think Ortega is a BJJ guy but he got the title shot by KOing Edgar.

True, but still... Ortegas expertise, the thing he knows best, is Gracie Jiu Jitsu. Whether he wins big fights by striking is beside the point, he didn’t spend the bulk of his years training striking, he spent them practicing arm-in guillotines, Peruvian neck-ties, triangles, omoplatas and loop chokes. Striking was has supplement.

 

[Coconutwater]

Well that is the strange part. Why is he so focused on the striking more? He should focus on developing the wrestling much more than the striking. He's maybe the best BJJer in the UFC.

Maybe because Rener Gracie wants the grappling aspects of Ortega’s game to be “Pure Helio Gracie Jiu-Jitsu” and if they brought in a wrestling coach, it would take away from Jiu-Jitsu being the end all be all of grappling styles.

 

[legcramp]

The problem is that BJJ is now table stakes. I don't see a BJJ focused fighter ever becoming champion again. The same is increasingly happening to wrestling... All the top fighters have solid defensive wrestling, its the differentiation of the striking that is making the difference. Khabib is a notable exception.

Kabob is a wrestler.

 

[blaseblah]

True, but still... Ortegas expertise, the thing he knows best, is Gracie Jiu Jitsu. Whether he wins big fights by striking is beside the point, he didn’t spend the bulk of his years training striking, he spent them practicing arm-in guillotines, Peruvian neck-ties, triangles, omoplatas and loop chokes. Striking was has supplement.

Actually he's been boxing since he was 17. And that's his gameplan when he fights. Not once in any of his 6 past fights did he shoot for a takedown. His BJJ is primarily used defensively or as a backup plan.

 

[The Half Blood Prince]

Because there are 2 aspects of grappling the takedown aspect and once the fight hits the ground
To answer your question, when u do BJJ it emphasises mainly on grappling once ur on the ground. Most schools start rolling on their knees and not many teach takedowns because most BJJ schools train for competition where a takedown only gives u 2 points and takes a lot of energy

 

[Maripucci]

Amazing grapplers or amazing bjj players? Without wrestling (TDD) strikers can’t KO their opponents and without wrestling (TD) bjj players can’t submit their opponents as effectively. Not a difficult concept to comprehend.

 

[z99]

GSP and Matt Hughes are the only 2 MMA fighters that were great at takedowns. It's called a scoop. Pick up opponent and they have zero way defending the takedown.

 

[fortheo]

Hes lost to every good wrestler he fought except fitch and sonnen

What's your point? Nobody is arguing that Maia is the best takedown artist in the UFC.

This thread is about BJJ guys learning how to take fighters down. Maia is a BJJ guy and he learned how to take fighters down so well that he has the 7th most takedowns landed in UFC history.

He doesn't belong in a thread about BJJ guys with no takedown ability.

 

[Coconutwater]

Actually he's been boxing since he was 17. And that's his gameplan when he fights. Not once in any of his 6 past fights did he shoot for a takedown. His BJJ is primarily used defensively or as a backup plan.

I know he's been boxing since 17, but he's a Rener Gracie project, which pretty much says it all, LOL.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Maia's issue is that he is old. He does not have the time to polish his wrestling enough to compete with elite wrestlers. Ortega just needs time and good wrestling coaches, and maybe some judo.

A lot of BJJ based guys have issues with TDs because of how BJJ is traditionally taught. TDs aren't a huge focus in a lot of gyms.

 

[blaseblah]

I know he's been boxing since 17, but he's a Rener Gracie project, which pretty much says it all, LOL.

Watch his fights, they say it all.

 

[ViD]

Literally all of the champs except Max and Valentina come from a grappling base.

Cyborg ?

 

[blaseblah]

Cyborg ?

BJJ base, competed in ADCC and IBJJF

 

[Coconutwater]

Watch his fights, they say it all.

Boxed since 17.

Jiu-Jitsu with Gracie Academy at 13 yrs.

Yes Ortega strikes, yes he’s effective but if he had it his way he’d rather be on the ground. You even hear Rener coach him between rounds talking about using the strikes to set up the takedown along the fence. If Ortega does submit people it’s because he caught them striking which happens but his greatest area of confidence is no doubt, on the ground.

 

[MMAart]

Why are we not seeing this revision of the leaders of the BJJ community? The Rickson Gracies etc....silence.

My guess is that the Gracies don't benefit financially from recognizing the importance of wrestling. They have benefited from their brand of Gracie Jiu Jitsu, and doing a complete revision of their training system takes a lot of effort and money in hiring top wrestling coaches and training partners to develop the next generation of BJJ-wrestling grapplers, which takes a lot of time.

It can be done, but there is no immediate financial gains from this, so it's probably the reason why they haven't done it.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Hes lost to every good wrestler he fought except fitch and sonnen

Dan Miller laflare story dhk beg to disagree with you. He lost to the elite of the elite wrestlers in ww, st 40 years old...