How long to train at each disciplin to make it instinct?

teamventure09

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I was talking with a guy who said he wrestled two years and that was enough for him to make it instinct.

I have trained grappling and striking for five years and that has been enough for me but I was a slow learner. I heard a coach once say it takes longer to learn striking than grappling but I'm curious how long on average for a practitioner to to make it instinct at each individual disciplin.
 
I'd say at least a year to learn the bare minimum of basics and become somewhat competent with their use. Two years to begin finding techniques you can execute with many different set-ups. It largely depends on how much sparring/randori/rolling you do and the time you spend drilling and forming a plan.

Edit: however long it takes to execute techniques/'instinct' without jerking around like a spaz.
 
I think it depends on age and aptitudes. Some guys will start shooting double legs instinctively after 2 wrestling classes. Some guys like me will always clinch up and go for hip throws or trips, no matter how long they train double legs.

My 5 year old daughter is o uchi gary ing her little brother with proper mechanics after 1 month of judo. I have never hit an o uchi gari in randori in my life.

I cannot switch middle kick with my left leg to save my life. I think I can count on one hand the number of liver hooks I landed in sparring. But I have TKoed dudes with my right leg kick and right hook to the body many times.

Moral of the above wall of text: i think part of the combat sport journey is finding the couple of niches that click with you and your instincts. Then that instinct will happen overnight.
 
I was talking with a guy who said he wrestled two years and that was enough for him to make it instinct.

I have trained grappling and striking for five years and that has been enough for me but I was a slow learner. I heard a coach once say it takes longer to learn striking than grappling but I'm curious how long on average for a practitioner to to make it instinct at each individual disciplin.

Of course varies by individual and how often you train. But one of my old boxing instructors used to say it takes about 20 days to ingrain a reflex once you can do the move properly and I think that's about right. For a slip reflex, he advised drilling an hour a day with a sparring partner throwing jabs at you (starting slow) and you slip them. After 20 days of that, the slip will be autonomic but you'll have to keep drilling the reflex to maintain it.

But that's just one movement. The thing with grappling is there are so many intermediate positions during a scramble. You could drill the shit out of uchi komi fit-ins with uchi mata from aiyotsu grip or double legs off a head snap, but going live, you'd still need a complete game outside those scenarios. And that's why it usually takes years for grappling to become autonomic.
 
I think it depends on age and aptitudes. Some guys will start shooting double legs instinctively after 2 wrestling classes. Some guys like me will always clinch up and go for hip throws or trips, no matter how long they train double legs.

My 5 year old daughter is o uchi gary ing her little brother with proper mechanics after 1 month of judo. I have never hit an o uchi gari in randori in my life.

I cannot switch middle kick with my left leg to save my life. I think I can count on one hand the number of liver hooks I landed in sparring. But I have TKoed dudes with my right leg kick and right hook to the body many times.

Moral of the above wall of text: i think part of the combat sport journey is finding the couple of niches that click with you and your instincts. Then that instinct will happen overnight.

Just some thoughts on this Sherbro, because we both know that if one of us has been experiencing something in training, it's a safe bet the other is too. Fully agree some movements will feel unnatural for some individuals and will be low payoff even after significant time invested. But I believe if you can do something well from one side, you SHOULD be able to do from the other side if you train for that. And if you can't, barring crippling injuries or congenital defects, it's probably because of how you train.

We've touched on this in a few other threads, but I boxed from an orthodox stance for many years but trained wrestling and Judo TDs with right leg forward and this has led to coordination and ROM imbalances. Like for many years I couldn't touch my chin to my right clavicle (despite easily doing so from other side) and still don't have the ROM turning to my right that I do to the left.

I don't want to walk like Quasimodo when I'm really old so have been trying things on my "off" side to balance out, like going for TDs and passing guard from the left side. I've also been doing barbell C&J (with hilariously light weight as discussed) and split jerk with right leg forward and I feel that's improved my ROM and balance to that side. But I recently started doing Bulgarian split squats and still have a lot of imbalance. I can easily do them with my left leg forward - because it feels like an orthodox boxing stance. But with right leg forward, I can do them but feel much less stable and my knee is wobbly. Still a work in progress but I'm getting there.
 
Just some thoughts on this Sherbro, because we both know that if one of us has been experiencing something in training, it's a safe bet the other is too. Fully agree some movements will feel unnatural for some individuals and will be low payoff even after significant time invested. But I believe if you can do something well from one side, you SHOULD be able to do from the other side if you train for that. And if you can't, barring crippling injuries or congenital defects, it's probably because of how you train.

We've touched on this in a few other threads, but I boxed from an orthodox stance for many years but trained wrestling and Judo TDs with right leg forward and this has led to coordination and ROM imbalances. Like for many years I couldn't touch my chin to my right clavicle (despite easily doing so from other side) and still don't have the ROM turning to my right that I do to the left.

I don't want to walk like Quasimodo when I'm really old so have been trying things on my "off" side to balance out, like going for TDs and passing guard from the left side. I've also been doing barbell C&J (with hilariously light weight as discussed) and split jerk with right leg forward and I feel that's improved my ROM and balance to that side. But I recently started doing Bulgarian split squats and still have a lot of imbalance. I can easily do them with my left leg forward - because it feels like an orthodox boxing stance. But with right leg forward, I can do them but feel much less stable and my knee is wobbly. Still a work in progress but I'm getting there.
Hey twin bro, indeed I also have imbalances, absolutely. It's even visible just by looking at me. Excellent point you bring up.

In my case though I think it's more optics than " crippling ". For 2 reasons: first, it is obvious that you have trained harder than me in your life. I never exceeded the hobbyist level. Second, your training is more focused than mine I think. You are a grappler (judoka then wrestler then bjj) who fucked around with boxing IIRC. I am a striker (various styles) who who switched to grappling (various styles) in his late 20s because he couldn t show up in the office with black eyes, but still continued striking although not sparring hard. I never concentrated too much on one sport to get these imbalances in a severe manner...
 
Hey twin bro, indeed I also have imbalances, absolutely. It's even visible just by looking at me. Excellent point you bring up.

In my case though I think it's more optics than " crippling ". For 2 reasons: first, it is obvious that you have trained harder than me in your life. I never exceeded the hobbyist level. Second, your training is more focused than mine I think. You are a grappler (judoka then wrestler then bjj) who fucked around with boxing IIRC. I am a striker (various styles) who who switched to grappling (various styles) in his late 20s because he couldn t show up in the office with black eyes, but still continued striking although not sparring hard. I never concentrated too much on one sport to get these imbalances in a severe manner...

Got it bro. In my case I did HS wrestling, then 4 months drinking the BJJ kool aid, then college Judo (only because I couldn't find local BJJ), then many years irregular cross-training in BJJ/MMA until I committed fully to BJJ about 7 years ago with wrestling cross-training when I can. So I've had much more formal training in grappling than striking. But I trained striking (mostly boxing) informally for about as long.

Grew up on Rocky movies and am old enough to remember Muhammad Ali. And in the 80's, the HW boxing champ was the baddest man on the planet. So when I was about 10, my dad got us some boxing gloves and told me and my 1.5 years older brother to settle our own disputes. My brother was always instigating shit and we used to fight a lot but he'd always win because he was bigger and stronger. About a year later I finally got a heavy bag and a speed bag and I mounted both on the patio with 2x4s, and trained on them for 10 - 20 minutes/day. And I did informal smokers on the front lawn with my brother and other neighborhood kids. Then about 2 years later I floored my brother with a hook to the liver without gloves on (because the fucker started shit before we had the gloves on lol) and he stopped messing with me.

Then I did 5 ammy fights in college and by that point I had probably 6 months of proper boxing instruction with years of drilling on my own. But that was enough to do well in my fights although my opponent and I gave each other concussions in my 5th fight and that convinced me to stick to grappling lol. But I kept up the bag work and shadow boxing for many years and always had a heavy bag in my rental apartment until early 30's. So about 20 years consistently throwing punches from orthodox stance.

IIRC weren't you a kickboxer? From what I've seen, I feel like kickboxers and TKD guys switch stances a lot more than boxers do, so become proficient from either side and probably have less imbalances as a result.
 
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Got it bro. In my case I did HS wrestling, then 4 months drinking the BJJ kool aid, then college Judo (only because I couldn't find local BJJ), then many years irregular cross-training in BJJ/MMA until I committed fully to BJJ about 7 years ago with wrestling cross-training when I can. So I've had much more formal training in grappling than striking. But I trained striking (mostly boxing) informally for about as long.

Grew up on Rocky movies and am old enough to remember Muhammad Ali. And in the 80's, the HW boxing champ was considered the baddest man on the planet. So when I was about 10, my dad got us some boxing gloves and told me and my 1.5 years older brother to settle our own disputes. My brother was always instigating shit and we used to fight a lot but he'd always win because he was bigger and stronger. About a year later I finally got a heavy bag and a speed bag and I mounted both on the patio with 2x4s, and trained on them for 10 - 20 minutes/day. And I did informal smokers on the front lawn with my brother and other neighborhood kids. Then about 2 years later I floored my brother with a hook to the liver without gloves on (because the fucker started shit before we had the gloves on lol) and he stopped messing with me.

Then I did 5 ammy fights in college and by that point I had probably 6 months of proper boxing instruction with years of drilling on my own. But that was enough to do well in my fights although my opponent and I gave each other concussions in my 5th fight and that convinced me to stick to grappling lol. But I kept up the bag work and shadow boxing for many years and always had a heavy bag in my rental apartment until early 30's. So about 20 years consistently throwing punches from orthodox stance.

IIRC weren't you a kickboxer? From what I've seen, I feel like kickboxers and TKD guys switch stances a lot more than boxers do, so become proficient from either side and probably have less imbalances as a result.
Okay I suppose you were more diversified between grappling and striking than I thought. Your imbalances likely come from being quite serious about training, then.

In my case, you are right i started with kickboxing but switching stance was tabou. I also did some TKD in my late teens but never switched stance later with boxing gloves on.
 
6.379 years exactly
Striking is 4 years, 6 months, and 13 days for instincts

If you’re asking how many classes I’d say probably 843 classes and 1,393 rounds

On average
fuck 4 years 6 months and 12 days

I guess this way I don't have to register my hands as lethal weapons
 
Another factor I think matters a lot is which art you trained first. I started with traditional karate and switching to BJJ and wrestling it took way longer than it should have to get my stances fixed. I think it'd have been much easier to learn to move properly if I'd come in with zero prior training.
 
Man, I read that as "How long to train your insect". I am now disappointed and dyslexic.
 
Ten thousand hours. So if you train an hour a day every day approximately 3 years.
 
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