Hydrogen - what do you guys think?

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Here in Germany where the energy transformation is really the biggest topic in society, hydrogen became a huge talking point over the last couple of years.

If I understand the topic properly, to produce hydrogen you elecrolyse water to isolate the H atoms in H2O. The product is highly combustible but you need a FUCKTON of energy to pull it off.

The idea is that hydrogen would become the energy storage medium for solar energy but it needs to be scaled to be economically viable. Going further on that thought, the further step would be to create gigantic solar farms in the desert in say North Africa, which would feed Yurrp in hydrogen, which would phase out fossil fuels.

Leaving politics and ideology aside, please, do you have thoughts on the matter as per its technical and economic feasibility.

 

[Flower2dPeople]

In toyota we trust.

 

[no fat chicks]

I'm sure it has some niche uses, but I think batteries are a much better solution.

 

[deviake]

Cool if they can make it work but from my understanding it's tough and expensive to work with for what you get out of it.

 

[davidlemonparty]

Hydrogen is very challenging to work with.
A few issues:
It is extremely light, so it means you need to compress it extensively to get enough energy in a given volume. So for example to use it as a mobile fuel in a truck or car the storage tank needs to be at extreme pressure which is an engineering and manufacturing challenge and also a high-risk.
This leads to its energy density - very low. So you need fukn heaps of it to do useful work.
on risk : it's very explosive across a wide range. Other explosive fuels need quite specific mixture levels with atmosphere before they can explode, whereas hydrogen is very happy to go bang in any mixture.
It's a tiny atom so it physically leaks out of seals, pipes, tanks, valves, etc. More engineering challenges and dollars.
Chemically, it degrades steel via a chemical reaction called hydrogen embrittlement. So existing piping and storage infrastructure needs to be largely replaced. This is a mammoth task. Maybe impossible.
so it's overall high risk, difficult to transport, has low energy content and requires largely new global infrastructure. All big challenges.

there are possible solutions though. It can be combined with nitrogen (main constituent of air) to form ammonia, which is an easily transported liquid. Ammonia can then be burned directly in engines as a liquid fuel or reconverted to hydrogen at remote point of use.
Also if we practically limit hydrogen to use cases such as stationary large scale plant I.e power plants, those engineering challenges scale down to be very manageable.

Jury is out basically. It's a real coin flip and requires political and social will.

Batteries are not effectively comparable they store and move power they do not create it

 

[Kowboy On Sherdog]

Dangerous?

 

[William Huggins]

Dangerous?

Yes, it's dangerous but that was 1937.........

 

[666]

I didn't know you was smart. But what happens when a hydrogen plant explodes?

I'm saying this straight up no joke though:

Nuclear power plants. It's the most efficient way with what we know and if it goes boom well goodnight Irene to everyone in the radius and I welcome the 3 headed deers.

 

[fungi]

Dangerous?

Blimpies were seriously sabotaged.
Use helium. Problem solved.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Hydrogen is very challenging to work with.
A few issues:
It is extremely light, so it means you need to compress it extensively to get enough energy in a given volume. So for example to use it as a mobile fuel in a truck or car the storage tank needs to be at extreme pressure which is an engineering and manufacturing challenge and also a high-risk.
This leads to its energy density - very low. So you need fukn heaps of it to do useful work.
on risk : it's very explosive across a wide range. Other explosive fuels need quite specific mixture levels with atmosphere before they can explode, whereas hydrogen is very happy to go bang in any mixture.
It's a tiny atom so it physically leaks out of seals, pipes, tanks, valves, etc. More engineering challenges and dollars.
Chemically, it degrades steel via a chemical reaction called hydrogen embrittlement. So existing piping and storage infrastructure needs to be largely replaced. This is a mammoth task. Maybe impossible.
so it's overall high risk, difficult to transport, has low energy content and requires largely new global infrastructure. All big challenges.

there are possible solutions though. It can be combined with nitrogen (main constituent of air) to form ammonia, which is an easily transported liquid. Ammonia can then be burned directly in engines as a liquid fuel or reconverted to hydrogen at remote point of use.
Also if we practically limit hydrogen to use cases such as stationary large scale plant I.e power plants, those engineering challenges scale down to be very manageable.

Jury is out basically. It's a real coin flip and requires political and social will.

Batteries are not effectively comparable they store and move power they do not create it

Thanks a lot. Ok so hydrogen makes little sense for small storage like in cars or trucks. What about large scale like say, a 100 megawatt solar farm that is next to an energy intensive industrial facility like steel manufacturing? You can store the hydrogen produced in summer and pipeline it a hundred meters to the steel factory over winter? OR, to a public utility which then burns it into electricity?

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I didn't know you was smart. But what happens when a hydrogen plant explodes?

I'm saying this straight up no joke though:

Nuclear power plants. It's the most efficient way with what we know and if it goes boom well goodnight Irene to everyone in the radius and I welcome the 3 headed deers.

Yes, that s what the guy above you was explaining it s a highly explosive gas which implies to renew the whole infrastructure.

Although if i am not mistaken the latest LNG terminals are hydrogen compatible.

 

[jeff7b9]

I didn't know you was smart. But what happens when a hydrogen plant explodes?

I'm saying this straight up no joke though:

Nuclear power plants. It's the most efficient way with what we know and if it goes boom well goodnight Irene to everyone in the radius and I welcome the 3 headed deers.

Nothing in life is free. Always a tradeoff.

The more potent energy source, at least in everything I have seen, will also require a more stringent grasp of physics and the more advanced technology to support it.

We haven't even slightly approached the limits of what we could do with nuclear power. High risk, monumental reward, BUT... not maybe monumental profit

As to the OP request to keep politics out of it, that is noble and I support the notion of an honest debate of physical characteristics ... but like it or not we are bound in a world governed by money and politics and the suppression of technologies which threaten the bottom line of profitable industry is a VERY real thing.

 

[Fedorgasm]

It sounds dangerous to drive a car with a gas tank full of hydrogen. Accidents will be way more deadly.

But if you could drive around with a gas tank full of water, and have it converted to hydrogen right before it burns, that would at least eliminate the safety issue.

Plus how cool would it be to get stranded in the desert and be able to drink from your gas tank?

 

[west42]

Hydrogen is the CM punk of Atoms

 

[William Huggins]

Blimpies were seriously sabotaged.
Use helium. Problem solved.

Haven't really had a good read but maybe it was the cost of helium..... That's a lot of gas to put in..... Wonder what the gas mileage was........

 

[aerius]

Thanks a lot. Ok so hydrogen makes little sense for small storage like in cars or trucks. What about large scale like say, a 100 megawatt solar farm that is next to an energy intensive industrial facility like steel manufacturing? You can store the hydrogen produced in summer and pipeline it a hundred meters to the steel factory over winter? OR, to a public utility which then burns it into electricity?

Storage remains a serious problem. It's a lot less dense than natural gas along with being way more leaky so the storage tanks will need to be absolutely huge and perfectly sealed. In theory it's possible but the cost & difficulty will be astronomical. You're likely better off running some kind of carbon capture system on the steel factory and using the Fischer-Tropsch process to turn it into gasoline & diesel.

 

[chardog]

hydrogen is a scam, and I'm not sure why you would leave politics out of it, politics is what facilitates these scams.

ethanol is another scam

industry gonna industry as long as politics can provide a profit, they dont care about inefficiencies and waste, follow the money.

 

[chardog]

It sounds dangerous to drive a car with a gas tank full of hydrogen. Accidents will be way more deadly.

But if you could drive around with a gas tank full of water, and have it converted to hydrogen right before it burns, that would at least eliminate the safety issue.

Plus how cool would it be to get stranded in the desert and be able to drink from your gas tank?

the issue is that you'll need a gigantic power source for that conversion, and instead of converting, why not just turn the wheels

 

[Streeter]

Over rated element

 

[chardog]

Here in Germany where the energy transformation is really the biggest topic in society, hydrogen became a huge talking point over the last couple of years.

If I understand the topic properly, to produce hydrogen you elecrolyse water to isolate the H atoms in H2O. The product is highly combustible but you need a FUCKTON of energy to pull it off.

The idea is that hydrogen would become the energy storage medium for solar energy but it needs to be scaled to be economically viable. Going further on that thought, the further step would be to create gigantic solar farms in the desert in say North Africa, which would feed Yurrp in hydrogen, which would phase out fossil fuels.

Leaving politics and ideology aside, please, do you have thoughts on the matter as per its technical and economic feasibility.

pumped hydro, super simple and safe barring an act of god super natural disaster.

pump water into reservoir uphill, release water downhill into generators when you need the power. Water is the energy storage.