I rewatched Heat last night for the first time in probably 20 years. Let's talk about it.

[Spoken]

I did, and now I barely remember it, but I remember being unimpressed and not understanding all the hype.

Interesting. It's easily one of my favorite films.

 

[Guestx]

Interesting. It's easily one of my favorite films.

I'm sure at one point I'll give it another look.

 

[UL]

just posting to show my av

 

[moreorless87]

When did I call anything cartoonish? And what scene are you talking about, the conversation between Neil and Vincent?

I never said anything bad about that scene. It's great.

As for it being one of the greatest crime films of all time, it's one of the greatest specifically because everything else in the film is so damn strong that it can thrive even without a strong emotional core.

To be fair, the wording in my original statement may be a little too strong. It's not really that I didn't give a shit about the characters, it's more that when I watch the movie I am frustrated that I don't care MORE. I'm a guy who doesn't mind shedding a tear during a movie but Heat just doesn't activate my emotional receptors in that way.

For instance, with a lot of movies, during a scene like the one where Vincent finds his step-daughter in the bath tub I might be inclined to get the ol' watery eyes, but this doesn't happen for me in Heat.

"Crime films" is a pretty broad lable as well and I'd say Mann generally tends to be more "crime thriller" rather than "crime drama" which I would argue the majority of the best regarded crime films are(Godfathers, Once Upon A Time In America, Goodfellas, Taxi Driver, etc).

Again I find it hard to make many specific criticisms of Mann's best crime films, if there not quite as good as some of the above for me I think its just an innate issue with the kind of film being made in the style he does rather than weakness in direction/writing/acting.

 

[FierceRedBelt]

As i remember, Broken Arrow is a much better movie that The Rock or Con Air. The later two were targeted or the avg slob and forgettable, while Broken Arrow was a classic. I haven't seen any of these in many years but I remember Broken Arrow being much different.

I liked all three and I wouldn't say any of the three borders on high brow entertainment.

 

[kahiljabroni]

One of my favorite movies for sure... just watched it again recently and yeh there are some plot holes and inconsistencies. For one they go into the bank with out masks and pull them down after they’re already on camera. Also Neil is supposed to be the ultimate professional so it was totally out of character to go after wainwright in the hotel. And Chris getting through the road block was far fetched

 

[moreorless87]

One of my favorite movies for sure... just watched it again recently and yeh there are some plot holes and inconsistencies. For one they go into the bank with out masks and pull them down after they’re already on camera. Also Neil is supposed to be the ultimate professional so it was totally out of character to go after wainwright in the hotel. And Chris getting through the road block was far fetched

I think the character is shown to have a pretty strong personal code across the film that makes this believable personally.

 

[kahiljabroni]

I think the character is shown to have a pretty strong personal code across the film that makes this believable personally.

Yeah but his #1 code is to be able to walk when you feel the heat. He had all the heat in the world on him and he went towards it

 

[moreorless87]

Yeah but his #1 code is to be able to walk when you feel the heat. He had all the heat in the world on him and he went towards it

I wouldn't say the film shows him as the "ultimate professional" though, the character is clearly guilded by his own moral world view quite often do the degree doing so in this situation didn't seem unrealistic to me.

 

[minute bull]

Neil going after Waingro is not a plot hole, it's an intentional character flaw. Neil IS the liquor store cowboy he hates.

No Feds is not a plot hole. They are simply not part of this story.

The bank cameras are all off by the time they walk in, along with the three alarm systems. Yes they can be identified but they needed to position themselves effectively for crowd control. Panic would create delays.

Shadow, maybe you just don't like the characters, and that's why the film feels cold. Or maybe because none of them get to do what they want, they're all forced by nature and habit into action and often the wrong kind.

 

[kahiljabroni]

Neil going after Waingro is not a plot hole, it's an intentional character flaw. Neil IS the liquor store cowboy he hates.

No Feds is not a plot hole. They are simply not part of this story.

The bank cameras are all off by the time they walk in, along with the three alarm systems. Yes they can be identified but they needed to position themselves effectively for crowd control. Panic would create delays.

Shadow, maybe you just don't like the characters, and that's why the film feels cold. Or maybe because none of them get to do what they want, they're all forced by nature and habit into action and often the wrong kind.

Good point on the cameras.., I forgot they disabled everything.

I wouldn’t say he’s a cowboy by any means though. He knew the right play was to leave but he let his emotions get the best of him and he broke his code

 

[Peteyandjia]

I wouldn’t say he’s a cowboy by any means though. He knew the right play was to leave but he let his emotions get the best of him and he broke his code

Prison broke Neil. That is why he went after Waingro. Old school Neil would have walked away. Ex-con Neil could not. Cons doing hard time can't let anything slide. Someone steals your tooth brush, you have to fuck them up badly for it. Things like personal space and people's word become exponentially more important lines that cannot be crossed without retribution, no exceptions. Neil left the joint, but it didn't leave him. And that became his undoing on the outside, the itch he had to scratch. He just couldn't let it go.

 

[Guestx]

Shadow, maybe you just don't like the characters, and that's why the film feels cold. Or maybe because none of them get to do what they want, they're all forced by nature and habit into action and often the wrong kind.

I really don't know what it is. Like I mentioned earlier, I think I might FEEL differently about the very same script interpreted by a different director, because my emotional reaction to Manhunter and Collateral were pretty much the same, with Collateral for whatever reason feeling like it might be just a little "warmer" than the other two.

 

[UL]

Prison broke Neil. That is why he went after Waingro. Old school Neil would have walked away. Ex-con Neil could not. Cons doing hard time can't let anything slide. Someone steals your tooth brush, you have to fuck them up badly for it. Things like personal space and people's word become exponentially more important lines that cannot be crossed without retribution, no exceptions. Neil left the joint, but it didn't leave him. And that became his undoing on the outside, the itch he had to scratch. He just couldn't let it go.

 

[Peteyandjia]

Turn that frown upside down!

 

[minute bull]

I really don't know what it is. Like I mentioned earlier, I think I might FEEL differently about the very same script interpreted by a different director, because my emotional reaction to Manhunter and Collateral were pretty much the same, with Collateral for whatever reason feeling like it might be just a little "warmer" than the other two.

Then it's probably the flat, emotionless deliveries. A lot of people don't like to deviate from that actory movie style acting. I like the lack of emotionality because it highlights the poetry of the terse dialogue, so I feel like they're all speaking almost in haiku. Like warrior poets.

 

[Po]

Yeah but his #1 code is to be able to walk when you feel the heat. He had all the heat in the world on him and he went towards it

That was the whole irony of the film. He went against his motto. He is human

 

[Peteyandjia]

Then it's probably the flat, emotionless deliveries. A lot of people don't like to deviate from that actory movie style acting. I like the lack of emotionality because it highlights the poetry of the terse dialogue, so I feel like they're all speaking almost in haiku. Like warrior poets.

As a friend of mine once put it, in perhaps my favorite description ever of HEAT:

"Why do you love that movie so much? It's just like, 3 hours of people making sad faces."

 

[jlagman]

I found myself less and less interested as it went on. Heist scene shoot-out was great though.

I do feel that certain parts of the movie just drag, I enjoy the movie but can't help but feel it's a tad overrated.

 

[Guestx]

Picked this up on Blu-Ray yesterday. The "Director's Definitive Edition."

Apparently there's a three-part documentary on the making of the film on the disc. Looking forward to checking that out.