International Iran begins attack on Israel, launching dozens of drones that’ll take hours to arrive

[Rod1]

Israel has the right to try to influence American politics.

Unhinged.

I never made the claim that they were successful at it, that's you trying to pretend Netanyahu's visit made a big impact on US policy.

Netanyahu opposition to the JCPOA broke the deal, a deal that was brokered by the collective West, mind you.

 

[Rod1]

That's because Russia and Chinese influence attempts are clandestine espionage and not open politics. Clearly there is a huge difference between clandestine electronic interference and influence campaigns and ordinary public political speech.

Well, if MAGA wins, maybe we will have Orban or Putin talking in Congress soon

 

[The XL]

Israel attempting to influence American politicians at the expense of the American people automatically makes them an enemy of the American people.

 

[Rod1]

Russia interference is bad only because they can't get away with doing it openly like Israel, /derp

 

[Rod1]

Israel attempting to influence American politicians at the expense of the American people automatically makes them an enemy of the American people.

Its kind of ridiculous how you need to explain some people why these things are bad and not seen as acceptable internationally.

Its almost like he has no understanding of basic history, when a foreign country starts picking sides and helping those sides to win you can always expect a diplomatic fallout when your side losses political support.

For example Iran, the US intervening in domestic affairs by supporting the Shah openly basically guaranteed that the next government would be anti-American.

 

[Siver!]

Israel makes own decisions, Netanyahu says after Cameron talks

The UK foreign secretary tells Israeli leaders not to risk escalating tensions in the Middle East.

www.bbc.co.uk

Netanyahu: We make our own decisions

Rest of the World: Clean up after yourselves, and don't expect us to do it for you.

 

[Rational Poster]

Russia and China literally forcing their way into American electronic networks and stealing data all over the country for a decade or more to target voters with disinfo during election years is literally the same thing as inviting a foreign leader of an allied country to speak in front of Congress.

 

[The XL]

Its kind of ridiculous how you need to explain some people why these things are bad and not seen with an open mind.

Its almost like he has no understanding of basic history, when a foreign country starts picking sides and helping those sides to win you can always expect a diplomatic fallout when your side losses political support.

For example Iran, the US intervening in domestic affairs by supporting the Shah openly basically guaranteed that the next government would be anti-American.

I'll give you credit. A lot of people who freak out about Russia influencing our politics don't seem to care that Israel openly influences America on a much larger scale. You deserve props for calling it out

 

[The XL]

Russia and China literally forcing their way into American electronic networks and stealing data all over the country for a decade or more to target voters with disinfo during an election years is literally the same thing as inviting a foreign leader of an allied country to speak in front of Congress.

Yeah, because that's all Israel does, make speeches.

 

[Rod1]

with disinfo during an election years

But its ok, because Israel can do it openly (this only makes Israel looks worse btw).

 

[Islam Imamate]

The entire premise that American decision makers are paralyzed by Israeli influence and unable to resist doing their bidding, is literally just that.

The idea that Bibi being invited to speak at congress one time was more impactful on policy makers than the US intelligence and surveillance service is bordering on childish and quite literally in the realm of anti-Semitism.

Where is this same concern when Zelensky did it? Or Macron? Or Modi?

The Prime Minister of Japan literally just addressed a joint session of Congress. I'm sure you guys are just all lined up to express your very real contention with foreign leaders interfering with American domestic politics and typing up your thread in protest to Kishida's congressional address last week. It has totally nothing to do with an anti-Israeli bias.

You're arguing against these half invented and completely uncharitable versions of what Rod1 is saying and it makes you come off as childish.

 

[The XL]

Israel doesn't have to interfere in our elections because they own both parties and just about everyone in them.

 

[Samjj]

Not really? you are simply using a grammatical argument while completely ignoring the substance which is simply a dishonest practice, the meaning is easily inferred by the context yet you zeroed on it while completely avoiding the topic in question.

The term "denuclearization" is used in informal and formal settings to refer to the term "nuclear disarmament".

For example

The Denuclearization of Ukraine: Consolidating Ukrainian Security​

NADIA SCHADLOW

The Denuclearization of Ukraine: Consolidating Ukrainian Security on JSTOR

NADIA SCHADLOW, The Denuclearization of Ukraine: Consolidating Ukrainian Security, Harvard Ukrainian Studies, Vol. 20, UKRAINE IN THE WORLD: Studies in the International Relations and Security Structure of a Newly Independent State (1996), pp. 271-287

www.jstor.org

Going full "ackchyually" on the term is ridiculous, its good for academia and its good for the press, by denuclearization we are talking about Iran abandoning its nuclear weapons program.



Nope, the JCPOA was made to stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons and it worked, was negotiated by the collective West and endorsed by the entirety of the US nuclear weapon community.


We never even started in the first place, you claimed Israel is looking to exhaust diplomatic options before war, yet Netanyahu has been pushing for war since at least 2012.

You can't honestly be telling me that I shouldn't interpret your arguments literally, particularly when we are talking about the exact stipulations and conditions of an international treaty.

An honest take on your position here is that you seem inclined to greatly exaggerate the effectiveness of the Iran deal in order to place further blame on Israel/Bibi for torpedoing a "so clearly successful" diplomatic intervention which would have prevented Iran from getting a nuke - which is horse shit.

A second deal, potentially renegotiated after fifteen years of the JCPOA expiring, may have more explicitly stipulated disarmament but that is totally theoretical and was not a part of the initial agreement. Your continued insistence of its "success" is fantasy.

The fifteen year window similarly could have been used as diplomatic cover while they clandestinely develop their weapons program away from the prying eyes of international inspectors.

In light of the current escalation in the ME, it looks like it was a mistake to back out given that we are closer than ever to an open conflict in the region with U.S. involvement. Diplomacy is always preferable to open war, but we will never know now what "could" have been.

 

[White Whale]

Scott Ritter says Israel got embarrassed. Take what you will of his opinion.

 

[Rod1]

I'll give you credit. A lot of people who freak out about Russia influencing our politics don't seem to care that Israel openly influences America on a much larger scale. You deserve props for calling it out

I wouldn't call Israel an enemy of the US though, Israel is like Turkey a geopolitical with its own agenda who will repeatedly work against the interests when convenient and possible.

 

[Rod1]

You can't honestly be telling me that I shouldn't interpret your arguments literally, particularly when we are talking about the exact stipulations and conditions of an international treaty.

Merriam-Webster not good enough for you?

Definition of DENUCLEARIZE

to remove nuclear arms from : prohibit the use of nuclear arms in… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

What about Oxford?

denuclearize

"denuclearize" published on by null.

www.oxfordreference.com

Either you are being dishonest or you don't understand what literally means.

 

[Samjj]

Merriam-Webster not good enough for you?

Definition of DENUCLEARIZE

to remove nuclear arms from : prohibit the use of nuclear arms in… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

What about Oxford?

denuclearize

"denuclearize" published on by null.

www.oxfordreference.com

Either you are being dishonest or you don't understand what literally means.

Where was that stipulated in the deal? Show me.

This is the bad faith argument where you double down and ignore the contents of the actual agreement.

 

[Rod1]

The fifteen year window similarly could have been used as diplomatic cover while they clandestinely develop their weapons program away from the prying eyes of international inspectors.

Netanyahu himself said during his infamous cartoon speech that nuclear bombs are not the issue, nuclear bombs can be developed in a small room in the middle of nowhere.

The issue with nuclear weapons is enriching, no enriched Uranium = no bomb, no fuel reprocessing = no plutonium = no bomb.

The JCPOA effectively prevented Iran from acquiring weapons grade Uranium and Plutonium which effectively killed its ability to get nuclear weapons.

 

[Samjj]

Netanyahu himself said during his infamous cartoon speech that nuclear bombs are not the issue, nuclear bombs can be developed in a small room in the middle of nowhere.

The issue with nuclear weapons is enriching, no enriched Uranium = no bomb, no fuel reprocessing = no plutonium = no bomb.

The JCPOA effectively prevented Iran from acquiring weapons grade Uranium and Plutonium which effectively killed its ability to get nuclear weapons.

Am I Bibi? Of course the fear is a nuclear weapon. No one cares about Iranian nuclear energy outside of the threat of a weapon.

Yes, the agreement including reduced enrichment of the last component required to assemble a nuclear weapon for a set time period. This would reduce their ability to expediently construct a nuclear weapon.

It did not prevent them from developing ICBMs capable of carrying nuclear warheads nor did it prevent them from continuing their weapons program.

The most accurate interpretation of the agreement is that it delayed the construction of a working nuclear bomb, not prevented.

 

[Rational Poster]

You're arguing against these half invented and completely uncharitable versions of what Rod1 is saying and it makes you come off as childish.

I'm arguing with the literal interpretation of his words, that's it's all Netanyahu and Israel's fault that the Iran deal was broken.

The GOP in particular had designs on ruining Obama's legacy and inviting Bibi there was part of their design, not the catalyst for the decision.