Is being a Gracie or Machado blackbelt still 'the standard' in prestige like a Kodokan Judo BB?

[yetanother]

i find it weird guys online run into such horrible black belts i guess im fortunate as almost every black i know is very good and can fight well but if thats your cause then ok thats fine i guess being in a small country yeah could be complete hit or miss

The first coach was brazillian silver world medalist at black way way back when the level was shit. He was a pothead so he didn't learn anything in the decades since. Completely sucked as a coach too because he didn't give a fuck and was doing everything the super old school way (random techniques etc.). He was picking on me because I was an awkward shy guy and he is both mentally a man-child and he was frustrated because he couldn't get laid (was complaining about it constantly).
Also one you have start building your game from technique from world champs on the internet it's hard for mediocre coaches to teach you stuff you will use.

 

[tekkenfan]

The first coach was brazillian silver world medalist at black way way back when the level was shit. He was a pothead so he didn't learn anything in the decades since. Completely sucked as a coach too because he didn't give a fuck and was doing everything the super old school way (random techniques etc.). He was picking on me because I was an awkward shy guy and he is both mentally a man-child and he was frustrated because he couldn't get laid (was complaining about it constantly).
Also one you have start building your game from technique from world champs on the internet it's hard for mediocre coaches to teach you stuff you will use.

what country are you in ?

yeah i see that the guys gym it rained at for years trained 14 years and is a black belt now but was a brown when moved to the area he basically knew everything i already did as a 3 stripe white belt lol besides maybe 3 more techniques but he was damn good at them at least

i feel that around the 2011 scene as long as you refined your skills during that era u dont have to keep updating yourself not saying you shouldnt but by then guys had good open guards from de la riva and reverse used spider ect had decet guard passing and great pressure

i feel today guys want a massive tackle box full of moves but only rep them maybe 5 times i like to have a good 3 attacks from every position i use but try to get a good 20 reps in a class with said moves to make sure you hit them thats why guys were better at top control i feel at blue purple brown a decade or so ago since their wasnt as many fancy moves as today they focused hard on what they had and had them down to a science like boxers only having 5 basic punches but doing them thosuands of times making them perfect

 

[peregrine]

id say so yes why get a black belt from some unknown guy when you could get from the pure lineage

Good lineage doesn't always equate to good coaching.
Coaching and teaching are a seperate art.

lineage is important same with colleges if i were to hire someone or train under someone id rather them be under someone i know of

tbh id rather be a relson gracie purple than a black belt from some random brazilian or american nobody knows

vitor wasnt given a belt lol he was training under carlson since he was 5 and he was a purple belt in Hawaii training under my coach relson before he got into ufc he did however move from brown to black rather quick but the dude had been doing bjj for 14 years

tbh i feel the hate form the gracies especially online come from arrogant narcissistic people who cannot stand the fact they are the face of the game its an issue with authority i notice this last generation of people also have 0 loyalty to their own coaches and do not seem to respect them having more faith in a dvd they paid 150 bucks for instead

People leave for a variety of reasons. Some find the coach not meeting their needs, bad environment, not enough peers, bad partners, coach consistently away, unprofessional coaches, too expensive, etc.

Respect is a two way street.

 

[closequarters]

Lineage is important but winning in competition trumps all.

 

[tekkenfan]

Good lineage doesn't always equate to good coaching.
Coaching and teaching are a seperate art.







People leave for a variety of reasons. Some find the coach not meeting their needs, bad environment, not enough peers, bad partners, coach consistently away, unprofessional coaches, too expensive, etc.

Respect is a two way street.

well sure if the coach is a jerk not putting his all into the gym sure but tbh whos a student to say they arnt getting the right coaching?

what does a blue belt know better than a black belt with years of experience lol blues wana learn all this new fancy shit but when you ask them to do a basic scissors sweep ect they can half ass do it and make tons of mistakes i see that a lot i feel you need to check your own ego first.

people can do what they wana do but if you really wana get better a black belt knows more about this than a blue belt once you get up to the purple brown then yeah i feel by then you should know what you want and if the coach isnt helping you improve then sure

 

[tekkenfan]

Lineage is important but winning in competition trumps all.

pretty much

 

[yetanother]

what does a blue belt know better than a black belt with years of experience lol blues wana learn all this new fancy shit but when you ask them to do a basic scissors sweep ect they can half ass do it and make tons of mistakes i see that a lot i feel you need to check your own ego first.

Well, as a white/blue belt I could see the way the world champs where teaching the same things was just superior.
You don't need to be super good to see that say a single leg from an olympic gold medalist is better then one taught by a black belt who never wrestled.

 

[tekkenfan]

Well, as a white/blue belt I could see the way the world champs where teaching the same things was just superior.
You don't need to be super good to see that say a single leg from an olympic gold medalist is better then one taught by a black belt who never wrestled.

true but it snot fair for white belts to shit o their instructors for lets say the way one does a knee cut pass them saying well rafa mendes does it better.. lol like be glad for what you have with the internet today its good that people can improve but it spoiled people also and made them i feel lose respect for their coaches acting as though they wont listen to anyone but the very top about techniques

its hard for me tbh i wana go off and move tot rain at a top gym with tons of training partners but today people have 0 loyalty and egos are massive top gyms only stay top for 1-3 years it seems even att now i wanted to go to the main att branch in miami but now colby isnt training with dustin and mastival anymore as an example.

i realize in some instances guys get done wrong and leave but come on.. almost every single team this shit happens to it goes to show t isnt the coaches but the egos of those who start doing well n tourneys want more money ect or to do everything their way not realizing when they eave they will lose their training partners iron sharpons iron

 

[peregrine]

its hard for me tbh i wana go off and move tot rain at a top gym with tons of training partners but today people have 0 loyalty and egos are massive...

Like when a coach has a mafia of 9gyms but you can't cross train at any of the others for fear of getting told on an excommunicated?

Or when a prominent figure in bjj history puts a ban on an ibjjf tournament that means excommunication of any attending members so ibjjf will NEVER come back to their island state?

If your coach only sees you roll a few minutes a year, I could see people leaving for more involved coaches.

 

[tekkenfan]

Like when a coach has a mafia of 9gyms but you can't cross train at any of the others for fear of getting told on an excommunicated?

Or when a prominent figure in bjj history puts a ban on an ibjjf tournament that means excommunication of any attending members so ibjjf will NEVER come back to their island state?

If your coach only sees you roll a few minutes a year, I could see people leaving for more involved coaches.

well again not everything's black and white theirs lots of coaches who own gyms whoa re tyrants but lots of gyms are made by top grapplers and then they split eventually due to egos ect again every major team splits up look at the past at how many amazing teams were set up then they fell due to guys leaving to have their own school ect

in wrestling its a individual sport but the best try to train with the best i like that mentality they train as a team even though bjj guys are top champs should still try to stay with top guys and try to stay on top

 

[Dirty Holt]

Lineage is important but winning in competition trumps all.

Bingo. This is why a 6 degree black belt who only opens up 2x a week is a terrible option over Random Joe black belt who competes and has 14 classes a week.

 

[peregrine]

well again not everything's black and white theirs lots of coaches who own gyms whoa re tyrants but lots of gyms are made by top grapplers and then they split eventually due to egos ect again every major team splits up look at the past at how many amazing teams were set up then they fell due to guys leaving to have their own school ect

in wrestling its a individual sport but the best try to train with the best i like that mentality they train as a team even though bjj guys are top champs should still try to stay with top guys and try to stay on top

If the Best train with the Best shouldn't students be allowed to cross train with students from other schools?
If growth is to occur, if not inbreeding and limits are often a result
Shouldn't open mat at other schools be encouraged? Not be penalized with excommunication?

 

[tekkenfan]

If the Best train with the Best shouldn't students be allowed to cross train with students from other schools?
If growth is to occur, if not inbreeding and limits are often a result
Shouldn't open mat at other schools be encouraged? Not be penalized with excommunication?

cross trainings no big deal only way as a coach id not want my guys t cross train is inf ear f the getting hurt if a gyms known for being to crazy restless

 

[peregrine]

Tekkenfan are you a Relson purple as you mentioned earlier?
Edit
Or under Relson?

 

[yetanother]

If the Best train with the Best shouldn't students be allowed to cross train with students from other schools?

It's obvious it should be allowed. A gang/cult mentality sucks.

 

[John Schultz]

Competitions where it counts

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

Who holds a Kodokan black belt in higher regard than any other? They used to run a course where you could get it in a year...

No, its how well either you or your students do in competition.

 

[killakoy]

So just an fyi, but if you're a part of the JBBAH yudansha in Hawaii, you'll get a kodokan BB rank along with your promotion. The reason for this is historical since the clubs of this yudansha was brought in to Kodokan Judo by Kano himself (before there was a US Judo national organization).

The BB rank holds no real advantage over any other BB, but I did get a card that allows me to go to practice at the Kodokan if I'm there.

 

[thewhiterooster]

if someone gets a black belt from rickson, you need to give mad respect to that person. without a doubt Renzo and his school has the most talented blackbelts of any of the Gracies. rener and ryron have Brian Ortega to make them happy,. otherwise, they're just businessmen. no other Gracies are super active in the jiu jitsu scene really. they're more about seminars etc... machados? rigan just wants his pictures with movie stars. and other than Rafael Lovato jr coming from Roger Gracie, the machados have not RECENT black belts worth noting. sure all of the Gracie's and Machado's are legends and deserve mad respect. but one could certainly argue that their relevance in the current bjj scene and mma is relatively small. with Renzo being the exception.