Is Jon Jones the best fighter we've ever seen

[giusti825]

Fedor also fought "fighters" with no professional experience, pro wrestlers, 2 career fights and Japanese game show hosts.

All while still remaining active enough to fight every top HW in his organization.....some of them multiple times....he really was something special....

 

[JoshR86]

There's so many steroid users in mma that it's hard to knock somebody for it. Only thing I blame Jones for is testing positive... twice! He should have been able to cover that shit up better. We'll never know how many are on gear but considering some fighters and people around the sport say it's upwards of 90% and the Diaz bro's seem convinced that literally everybody is on roids besides them... I mean there has to be a reason these people think that, they've been around the sport for a long time so they should know a lot more than the average mma fan.

You really think the Diaz brothers claiming everyone is a steroid cheat except themselves is a solid source??

Or that they have inside source on every camp is fucking dumb, fighters won't know who is on the stuff within their own gym's, but the Diaz brothers will....

You also claim "so many top fighters" but it's basically Brazilians and Jon Jones, and Brazil has had basically a state run doping program for a long time.

" Dr. Marcio Tannure is both doctor to Silva (34-6 MMA, 17-2 UFC) and the medical director of the Brazilian MMA Athletic Commission (Comissao Atletica Brasileira de MMA, or CABMMA). "

Other patients of his, non lactating Big foot Silva(busted), TRT Vitor, he was the one that actually had the USADA agent deported, delayed Aldo's test by 48 hours, and then he refused the agent to be allowed to take or handle the samples, he did it under the watch of the USADA agent.

Big Foot also claims he intentionally dopes Brazilian fighters.

So it's not necessarily fair to throw all fighters under the bus, I mean you have Jon Jones and Anderson Silva popping, the pay gap between those 2 and 95% of fighters in the UFC is huge and yet somehow 95% of fighters have access to expensive designer drugs and not them??

 

[ermac88]

All while still remaining active enough to fight every top HW in his organization.....some of them multiple times....he really was something special....

I hear you and your opinion isnt uncommon at all.
I was exposed to him more recently which simply isnt as impressive as todays fighters, you add the Pride fight fixes element and how he and CroCop just got destroyed coming Stateside, it really puts a question mark on his career.

I imagine its like seeing Royce Gracie in ufc1. "He was amazing", but you see him relative to fighters today, it just doesnt hold up.

But I hear your opinion and appreciation for him.

 

[MusterX]

still in the denial stage I see

You must be, 53.4% of the people polled either think yes Jones is in the GOAT discussion, or its close he's in the GOAT discussion. That means more than half the people polled don't really give a shit if he used PED's or not. You purists are the ones still in denial, most of us don't give a shit.

 

[Stan]

Fedor = The GOAT
Jon Jones = The GOAT PED using fighter.

 

[ChachiKiller]

I am not taking ANYTHING against the guy BUT.... we know he has cheated so immediately his ceiling is LOWERED. Just a fact. Next, he has incredible natural advantages that help him look good.

When you watch him fight he is not striking like say DC with an integrated game. JJ basically sits back and hits like one shot bag work. His reach, hands and fingers in the face REALLY can neutralize opponents. Since they HAVE to get across the DMZ to him and he can have so much extra time to respond, he never really has to have a great strinking game. He just has to be a good hitter. People who are shorter like DC to overcome that advantage are better because Jones NEVER had to fight at a disadvantage (which is the judge of the greats). HE NEVER HAD TO FIGHT AT A DISADVANTAGE WHERE THE OUTCOME WAS BASED SOLELY ON SKILL. I am not saying he is bad but his distance makes it 30% harder (more challenging just a guess but it is significant for those who ever fought someone with advantage). He is athletic and if you don't actually see how his range and NOT actual integrated fighting skill is winning then I can't help.

Next, long limbs makes it hard to take down. Guy with way less reach at the same height took him down when Gus had VERY little ground game. Gus took a guy who nobody took down to the mat with average take down skill ONLY because he was long enough to reach and grab a leg. Sorry but true there. Jones can also freakishly reach where others cant EVEN if they sprawl.

Sorry. He has advantages that make it easier for him. He has good fight IQ but if he is never stressed and ALWAYS has an answer others don't just because of the reach then he is not the best fighter at all. The best are the same size but overcome with heart and skill.

 

[JBJISGOAT]

I hear you and your opinion isnt uncommon at all.
I was exposed to him more recently which simply isnt as impressive as todays fighters, you add the Pride fight fixes element and how he and CroCop just got destroyed coming Stateside, it really puts a question mark on his career.

I imagine its like seeing Royce Gracie in ufc1. "He was amazing", but you see him relative to fighters today, it just doesnt hold up.

But I hear your opinion and appreciation for him.

Pretty much my opinion other than I saw fedor in his prime. @giusti825 i respect your knowledge as well and your respectful arguments…lots of fedor fans could take note on how to debate from you!

 

[chardog]

You must be, 53.4% of the people polled either think yes Jones is in the GOAT discussion, or its close he's in the GOAT discussion. That means more than half the people polled don't really give a shit if he used PED's or not. You purists are the ones still in denial, most of us don't give a shit.

other folks are simply in various stages.

and it's not about being a purist, it's within the ruleset. If others can cycle off it, they good for them, it just means that JJ is juicing to the gills, way more than other folks. Nice try making it a black and white issue.

The playing field is juicing without getting caught, clearly Jones is not on that playing field.

 

[KORMAN]

I picked close. His physical tools combined with his skillet made him one of the best, BUT, the PEDs were what allowed him to throw a million elbows, kicks, and punches a round, when in reality, most guys his size shouldn't be able to grapple, kick, punch, and throw spinning damn elbows, all while using a heavy clinch game the way he can, without some type of, "help".

Lmao, why am I even using, quotations? The guys a PED cheat, and needed PEDs to beat DC. If you watch the rematch, DC was indeed winning that fight, and without PEDs, no way Jones is keeping that pace for 5 rounds, and fighting him off of him like that in both those fights.

Jones is a manufactured, "GOAT" level fighter, and now that we know that, he's forever off the GOAT list.

Good riddance, cheating POS. I just SMDH at the fact that he needed PEDs agaisnt a guy almost 10 years his elder, a foot shorter, and with no ACLs in his knees. Are you freaking kidding me???

And as for who the best fighter we've ever seen is/was, Fedor, GSP, MM, and Silva. And dare I say, Tony Ferguson is creeping up there for the LW class.

I just can't name a single, best ever. Way way too many variables in MMA.

Ok, gun to my head, Fedor.

 

[SamboPunch]

lol got busted for roids twice, i'll pass on referring to anyone caught doing that the best. regardless of the stupid assumption that all fighters are doping.

 

[Hotora86]

Fedor on roids eyepokes Jones to a living death.

 

[ChachiKiller]

Maybe its your poor Engrish or a typo on your part. Are we talking the same Fedor that ducked UFC? The same Fedor that got 1 punched by a UFC MW who was never good enough to win the belt there despite several gift title shots a 7-9 UFC record since pride ended? the same Fedor that ducked Reem twice and had a 3 fight losing streak thereafter?

Just checking.

In fairness he made it obvious that he wanted to fight but they wanted to own him by contract. He was not willing to be owned and did not need to.

 

[tjumper78]

the best fighter among those who used ped's.

 

[helltoupee]

Than that should mean he did not take much damage in his career!?!? Meaning no mileage which in turn means his prime lasts much longer!?!? "But but he was out of his prime when he started losing"…Time to backpedal, just like every poster does when I confront them after they post this narrative.

You can win a round/fight and still take a lot of damage so I fail to see how you've made some kind of mind-bending point here.

Fedor also fought much more frequently than fighters do today = less recovery time.

You also discount the fact that Fedor was competing in combat sambo while he was fighting, which is basically mma.

Your "gotcha!" just turned into a giant fail.

 

[helltoupee]

Fedor also fought "fighters" with no professional experience, pro wrestlers, 2 career fights and Japanese game show hosts.

You're right, he did - IN ADDITION to his contender fights, and at HW, where even the biggest can has the power to change the game with one punch. Why do you think the HW belt changes hands so frequently? Because it's much more dangerous to fight at HW, regardless of who you are fighting.

I'd like to see Jon Jones fight his regular 2 fights/year, and in between those 2 fights, take 3 fights in between at HW against cans who outweigh him by 50lbs. And to top it off, when he's not fighting cans or contenders, Jones would also have to compete in combat sambo and hold gold at the same time.

Ya, let's see Jones fight every month and not lose a round for 10 years, then we'll talk.

 

[freaky]

Whatever, cheats or not, you can't take away the skills this man processes. Those angles, those elbows, that standing guillotine, etc. He's skillful and a great fighter. Never seen anyone else use their range fully like Jon Jones. A hell of a chin too. Guy is made to fight.

However, I think DC ragdolls him without steroid though. Jon Jones was able to match DC in strength cuz of steroids. But other than that, Jones is one of the most skilled fighters in UFC.

 

[Amorphis]

For me, it's probably Anderson Silva. Jones is/was great to watch, but there was just something that was almost beautiful about Anderson's style when he was in his prime. It just looked smooth and effortless. I never really got that same feel when watching Jones fight.

 

[ermac88]

You're right, he did - IN ADDITION to his contender fights, and at HW, where even the biggest can has the power to change the game with one punch. Why do you think the HW belt changes hands so frequently? Because it's much more dangerous to fight at HW, regardless of who you are fighting.

I'd like to see Jon Jones fight his regular 2 fights/year, and in between those 2 fights, take 3 fights in between at HW against cans who outweigh him by 50lbs. And to top it off, when he's not fighting cans or contenders, Jones would also have to compete in combat sambo and hold gold at the same time.

Ya, let's see Jones fight every month and not lose a round for 10 years, then we'll talk.

No one does that in the ufc
Is not structured like that.
The sport has evolved, it's more structuted and there aren't predetermined outcomes

 

[Bob Weeks]

In fairness he made it obvious that he wanted to fight but they wanted to own him by contract. He was not willing to be owned and did not need to.

No. Instead, he spent a career can crushing in between the odd relevant fight. Many of whom went onto get exposed and even embarrassed in the UFC. CC his biggest W was a gatekeeper at best.

Ducks Reem twice. Goes on a 3 fight losing streak all by stoppage including 1 punched by a MW who has a 7-10 UFC record following pride including 4 gift title shots. Never good enough to be the MW champ. A B squater MW 1 punched fedor. Its classic fitting end to can crushing for years.

DJ is next. Padding record and can crushing manlets is not without its consequences. When he finally fights someone relevant, he will get slob dropped.

 

[Bob Weeks]

I picked close. His physical tools combined with his skillet made him one of the best, BUT, the PEDs were what allowed him to throw a million elbows, kicks, and punches a round, when in reality, most guys his size shouldn't be able to grapple, kick, punch, and throw spinning damn elbows, all while using a heavy clinch game the way he can, without some type of, "help".

Lmao, why am I even using, quotations? The guys a PED cheat, and needed PEDs to beat DC. If you watch the rematch, DC was indeed winning that fight, and without PEDs, no way Jones is keeping that pace for 5 rounds, and fighting him off of him like that in both those fights.

Jones is a manufactured, "GOAT" level fighter, and now that we know that, he's forever off the GOAT list.

Good riddance, cheating POS. I just SMDH at the fact that he needed PEDs agaisnt a guy almost 10 years his elder, a foot shorter, and with no ACLs in his knees. Are you freaking kidding me???

And as for who the best fighter we've ever seen is/was, Fedor, GSP, MM, and Silva. And dare I say, Tony Ferguson is creeping up there for the LW class.

I just can't name a single, best ever. Way way too many variables in MMA.

Ok, gun to my head, Fedor.

LOL @ Fedor, a guy who ducked Reem twice, ducked UFC his entire career, a 3 fight losing streak all by stoppage when fighting relevant competition, and 1 punched by a MW. fought in a org that allowed PEDS and warned of no testing LOL

GSP fled from the sport after getting beat to death by Hendrix and once USADA came in conveniently. Fled from the Silva super fight. Magically, will fight Bisping at MW now.

So typical.Bisping by brutal KO. GSP is never to be seen again.