Is Tony's recent skid due to him being a shell of himself or his comp just being bad matchups??

[PhilMcCavity]

Tony was unstoppable for years walking guys down never taking a step back and now you guys seem to forget how good he was

 

[Portland8242]

I still think prime Tony could drown Gaycheese,Dariush and Chuck

I don't think prime Tony beats those guys but he definitely atleast gives them a real fight.

 

[KazDibiase]

I think Din Thomas said it right when Tony rely on being wild and unpredictable and lack fundamentals. Plus his style doesn't match well with his age.

 

[Mayonnaiseandjelly]

Go watch Tony vs stephens or rda. He used to be ELITE. He is simply washed now

 

[NoSmilez]

Age and injuries. There is also a lot of tape on him.

 

[Jonathan Utah]

They’re going to feed him to Goobs so Tony can finally retire.

 

[Paladin]

It's interesting because Tony has always had two glaring flaws in his game,
1 being his striking (mainly boxing) defense and
2 his TDD

That said, could it be that his recent opponents he's lost to (Justin, Charles, Dariush) are just guys who excel at those things (Justin with his hands, landed anything and everything on Tony and Charles ,Dariush took him down at will and dominated) were able to expose his weaknesses or is it truly a story of Tony just being washed/a shell of his former self??

Tony was never the same after his horrific knee break.

I theorize that the issue was not the leg break, but way in which he treated his leg after.

it is admirable how he came back so quick but tbh, he needed a LOT LONGER to properly rehab the knee.


If you watch is fights post the knee injury, his punches lacked the extra pop that he had prior to the injury. His overall game became way more reliant on standup, as he couldn’t force take downs and crazy scrambles.

in the Pettis fight, he was wincing in pain when Pettis tested that knee. Although he won, it was more due to Antony getting hurt ( wrist) and Anthony failing to mount a solid offensive. In the JG fight, if you look closely, his knee was badly compromised from a few kicks and he could not move as freely.

in the Do Bronx and Dariush fights, he was not able to use his compromised leg to push off, scramble or force submissions because the leg was compromised.

granted, Tony is tough, but the knee injury took away from his overall game.

 

[nostradumbass]

If you're losing to both strikers and grapplers, you can't really blame bad matchups. Tony was never that great at anything, he was just tough enough to absorb damage more than his opponents, and that doesn't last forever.

 

[legkicktko]

That happened after Gaethje fight where he was passive and trying to avoid damage. But yes torn ligaments does require more healing/recovery time. But the point of my post isn't so much on age alone, because lots of examples of older fighters in even lighter weight classes having success, and still having success. I think it's more life style that makes the difference and the ones that live clean tend to be able to fight in the later years where most would need to retire. Also I think if may boil down to their training and motivation, some might just be going through the motions in the later years and fighting for paychecks. Donaire just won a world title in boxing at age 38 in a lighter weight class. PAC and Mayweather were still winning belts and beating young champions in their mid 30's - 40's. So I don't look at Tony and Nick as that old because I've seen older fighters in boxing have success in the lighter weight classes.

I understand the macro point, but again, they don't age the same because they don't have as much wear and tear.

Remember that Tony tore his knee before fighting Pettis and many could argue that's where the recession of his dominance started. I know he tripped on a chord or whatever, but it's also years of wrestling and grappling that led to him having miles on his body. What you're saying is also true though he doesn't have a style that ages well.

I just find the boxers to be of no relevance due to the automaticity of their training. It's like comparing aging baseball players to NFL. The wear and tear is much worse in MMA with wrestling and Jiu-Jitsu on top of doing all the striking.

The bottom line is the average age at the lighter weight classes is very low. Tony is older than most, and has more miles.

 

[skylolow]

Any time frame of Tony's career he would've had a lot of issues with those fighters.

Almost 38 years old, 30+ pro fights over almost 15 years, 15+ years of training, all of minutes in the cage, and it all equals a guy on the downside of his career at LW.

 

[FIghtxIQ]

I understand the macro point, but again, they don't age the same because they don't have as much wear and tear.

Remember that Tony tore his knee before fighting Pettis and many could argue that's where the recession of his dominance started. I know he tripped on a chord or whatever, but it's also years of wrestling and grappling that led to him having miles on his body. What you're saying is also true though he doesn't have a style that ages well.

I just find the boxers to be of no relevance due to the automaticity of their training. It's like comparing aging baseball players to NFL. The wear and tear is much worse in MMA with wrestling and Jiu-Jitsu on top of doing all the striking.

The bottom line is the average age at the lighter weight classes is very low. Tony is older than most, and has more miles.

Both has wear and tear, boxing is much more taxing in other way in terms of conditioning/cardio. More damage from strikes in boxing since it's only strikes. You are arguing for joint pains and injuries but not everyone in mma is wrestling based. They tend to just use less wrestling as they get older. Who knows, maybe they just need to be more elastic and stretch more to ease their joints and mobility issues. Most people use stiff movements so it's not surprising their mobility becomes stiff as they get older. Fluid movement fighters tend to age better with their mobility/movement.

 

[TP4iR]

Time got Tony by TKO

 

[Stoic]

Definitely age/wear and tear. Had he become champ when he fought Khabib, he would have been the oldest champion in 155 history BY FAR. He was already on the wrong side of father time and fighting an uphill battle like never before, being a geriatric on a 12-fight win streak in his weight class. I consider that one of the greatest accomplishments in the sport and won't likely be broken by anyone similar aged/weight. It's really too bad Khabib retired so soon. I would of bet heavily against him doing so well at Tony's advanced age and falling off a lot sooner.

 

[blaa_kriger]

he pretty much survives on toughness, and that's a hard thing to sustain for long. especially as you get older, and slower - now you're not tough and competitive, you're just a punching bag.

Yeah no kidding! He took so much damage against Vennata, Lee, Pettis etc. and he won those fights.

 

[JKS]

I think it's a combination of both. I think it's more the competition, but I think wear n tear and age is also a factor.

 

[rakeleaves]

Both /end thread

 

[pamirec]

He is clearly not the same fighter anymore. Those wars finally took a toll on him.

 

[Alexander_GOATanovski]

It's mostly cause he's old & took a life altering beating at the hands of Gaethje 2.0. The last 3 fighters he fought though are some of the best he's faced though so those would be tough matchups even for prime Tony. I think prime Tony beats Dariush & maybe Olives but still loses to Gaethje.

If I had to rank the best fighters (at that specific time) El Cucuy has fought it would be: RDA, Gaethje, Oliveira, Pettis, Dariush, FKL

 

[terrapin]

not sure why the skid but tony is one of the most impressive fighters to ever compete. the reason? because he competed and won at the highest level in the world while basically making up his own style and training methods.

 

[MCS]

He faced different styles during his run. Not all the best for him, but could overcome for example the Lee top game, the Edson war and the Lando beating. Striking and grappling both looked good.

Now he's an underdog against all styles. Can't stop opponents striking or grappling. Looks overtrained, that his body can't get to peak level, even when in shape.