Is Usman's KO loss to Leon the most all time rankings-altering loss ever?

[Gamer2k4]

Usman was 50 seconds away from being arguably a T5 MMA GOAT. Had he won, I think you could easily make the case as him being the #4 MMA goat behind JJ, GSP, Silva

He had five defenses against three people. Granted, that's more defenses than most champions get, but it still puts him even with Adesanya (I'd argue below, given that Adesanya came back to get the title again), even with Hughes, far below Aldo, and far below Mighty Mouse. And that's just counting the UFC, and assuming people like Fedor aren't in the running for "MMA goat."

The thing that really hurts Usman's resume is that two of his defenses are against Covington and two are against Masvidal. Compared to someone like Jones, for example, who took on the best LHW had to offer and dominated them all for a decade, it's hard to think of Usman as even in the same league as that.

I'd rank Usman top five at WW (Hughes and GSP at least are above him), maybe top ten in the UFC, and perhaps top 15 or top 20 throughout MMA as a whole.

 

[NoContest]

GOATs clear out their divisions. Usman fought 5 guys in his title reign, one of them a journeyman lightweight, and he lost to the 5th guy. So he beat 3 legit WW contenders as champ, if you count winning the title.

Not even close.

 

[mrshadeed]

1.) Barao's loss to Dillashaw. He was never the same on a pound for pound level after that fight.
2.) Aldo's loss to Conor. Changed the trajectory of his career.

 

[Lost_Cause]

If GSP hadn’t lost to Johny Hendricks and then quit mma he’d be the undisputed mma goat

There’s nothing indisputable on the dog.

 

[HP_Nut]

Pretty good thread OP and an underrated topic.

If we're counting WMMA, Rousey's loss to Holm might be even higher considering she could have easily retired undefeated and become a mythical GOAT. Obviously level of competition would be debated by some but as Khabib's inflated legacy proves, most people will just gawk at the green boxes on wikipedia and won't care about quality of opponents as long as you were undefeated.

It's crazy to think now, but if RR retired before Holm, we would be talking about her as arguably the overall GOAT. She had such a crazy amount of hype at the time & looked super impressive (in hindsight, vs mostly soccer moms). I agree about how people care so much about undefeated record & don't take into account how many of those wins were over top 5, top 10 fighters, etc. Prior to Holm, no one picked RR to lose that fight, there was some people who said it could be much more competitive than what the odds suggest, but even then they weren't picking Holm.

Back when Barao was 30-0 or whatever, very few people questioned his status despite the fact he only had something like 3 top 10 wins at the time. Imagine if Barao retired before TJ fight, people would say he's top 5 GOAT

 

[jooohnmatrix]

We won’t know who the goat is for another fifty or so years, even then it will be subjective. It’s nonsense at this stage which is why every six months people are arguing about the latest flash in the pan being the goat.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

Usman was 50 seconds away from being arguably a T5 MMA GOAT. Had he won, I think you could easily make the case as him being the #4 MMA goat behind JJ, GSP, Silva - yet with that KO loss (which forced a 3rd fight that he lost) I'd say those 2 losses moved him from T5 to T20/T25. Relatively speaking, that's brutal.

If Usman were to retire right now, where do you have him ranked all time? T5? T10? T15? T20? T25? Conversely, had he never gotten KO'd by Leon (and assume he immediately retired), where would you have ranked him all time?

Maybe only has a chance if ya count the P4P rankings too? Not too much movement in his own division. If you don't make an immediate splash, then I doubt too much the long term effects of it.

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

Usman was always overrated, his resume has literally one arguable good win in Colby, but, somehow inversely, the only reason people think Colby is a good win is because he lost to Usman twice.
Anyone counting Masvidal as legit title defenses is delusional.

 

[Local Plata]

Had he won, I think you could easily make the case as him being the #4 MMA goat behind JJ, GSP, Silva

Lmao. This is the funniest thing I've read today.

 

[HuskySamoan]

Usman was 50 seconds away from being arguably a T5 MMA GOAT. Had he won, I think you could easily make the case as him being the #4 MMA goat behind JJ, GSP, Silva - yet with that KO loss (which forced a 3rd fight that he lost) I'd say those 2 losses moved him from T5 to T20/T25. Relatively speaking, that's brutal.

If Usman were to retire right now, where do you have him ranked all time? T5? T10? T15? T20? T25? Conversely, had he never gotten KO'd by Leon (and assume he immediately retired), where would you have ranked him all time?

You think with a win over Leon instead of the headkick Usman would be above Mighty Mouse, Fedor, Cruz, Aldo and Cormier? Ehhh.

 

[Ozze]

Usman wasn't top 5.

Now, after the losses and considering his run was rematches against guys that are not exceptional, he's like top 15.

If he won he would be closer to top 10.

 

[HeffDoesWant]

I actually thought those masvidal fights kind of hurt his legacy just as much as those losses did in terms of all time great potential. His strength of schedule really waned with 4 of his title fights involving colby and masvidal. I'll never forget Joe hinting that masvidal was on GSP level, so ridiculous.

But yeah man great question, it certainly was a massive set back in terms of his WW legacy, but all time? I think he was already settling into that 15-20 area even with a win over Leon.

Agreed re opponents.

Colby and Masvidal both seem like the epitome of style over substance

 

[ExitLUPin]

Usman only had a case for top 5 all time if he hypothetically won against Leon if you were a retard so no. This is why calling fighters GOAT in the middle of their careers before everything pans out is for autistic individuals. You won't get a clear picture of GOAT until their careers have been written.

 

[RayA]

It happens with a lot of champs, but the credibility of Usman's defenses has not been faring well with age, not that it was all that strong to begin with.
Colby is his best win x2, and he's been on stasis for the past few years. Tyron went on to lose 4 in a row and turned himself into a joke, Masvidal was a journeymen, yet defending against him twice?, and Burns was a just a good defense.

He comes across as reigning during a mediocre time period of Welterweight. Not his fault at all though. Me went from Second best WW champ, to still second best WW champ.

 

[SpiderFan187]

Pretty good thread OP and an underrated topic.

Obviously level of competition would be debated by some but as Khabib's inflated legacy proves, most people will just gawk at the green boxes on wikipedia and won't care about quality of opponents as long as you were undefeated.

I was was watching a Khabib docco yesterday and reliving his run, it's not about green boxes.. it's about domination, people seem to think his only good wins were Conor and the ones after but easily forget how he dominated guys like RDA / Barboza. He's fought a lot of big names who have fought big names themselves and every one of them will say Khabib was there hardest fight.

 

[Rationality]

Usman reigned over the weakest WW division since the early Hughes era if not since Newton. Anyone who rematches Journeyman Jorge is padding his record. Great fighter but was never a top 10 p4p all time and now he's about top 30 at best. Edwards arguably outranks him, Fitch had just as long of an unbeaten streak, Hughes maybe outranks Usman too. Ironically the WW division is getting strong again it's just that Dana won't let Belal or Shavkat fight for the title.

 

[TempleoftheDog]

He was fringe top 10 for me. Calling out Masvidal for a rematch worked against him. I literally docked him for it as it’s the lamest thing ever. I have people with less defences above him. Like Stipe, and Izzy.
DJ, and Aldo were miles ahead. Thank the stars for Edwards. Anybody that thinks Usman was the WW is too ridiculous to take serious in any way.

 

[Bork Neslar]

Maybe. Maybe not.

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

No x3

 

[FreddieRoachsVoice]

I was was watching a Khabib docco yesterday and reliving his run, it's not about green boxes.. it's about domination, people seem to think his only good wins were Conor and the ones after but easily forget how he dominated guys like RDA / Barboza. He's fought a lot of big names who have fought big names themselves and every one of them will say Khabib was there hardest fight.

It is easy to look especially dominant when 1) you spend years crushing cans to build up an invincible aura and 2) every top guy you face during your brief, cherrypicked run at the top is stylistically favorable for you.

RDA has struggled with wrestlers for literally his entire career. Should I hype Tyson Griffin for being able to lay and pray him too? At least Griffin could hold him down consistently and didn't have to do it over and over again (seriously, most takedowns is not an impressive stat). Same with Barboza except he has even worse defense off of his back.

Laughable how a documentary is supposed to be some sort of evidence of his greatness LOL please watch a Rickson documentary and then tell me how he would beat any modern fighter in his prime

Also, the "well he fought tough guys and said Khabib was tougher" is the definition of MMA-Math. Nice try.

For the unbiased public, the whole "29-0" hype really wears thin considering the vast majority of his pre-UFC opponents were winless or had insanely bad Glass Joe level records. As I said in the comparison with Rousey, people will gloss over this as long as the person went undefeated because inflated stats mean more than them than actual proven performances against top quality opponents of different styles consistently for years. Many fighters have done this, Khabib has not.

Sorry, Khabib is not a serious GOAT candidate and if you can't see that, you're hopeless