Social Joy Reid Defends Books with Pedophilia in Public School Librairies

[RoastBeast]

Where has that happened?

It can happen in any school that carries that book. I mean if you want the book to be a part of the school's curriculum, then why wouldn't teacher's have kids read it? The arguments you guys are putting forward are so bad and nonsensical.

Concern raised over sexually explicit book in Olathe, Kansas, seventh grade classroom

Editor’s note: We have included the sexually explicit content in this incident report so adults can make an informed assessment. The content is available in Olathe, Kansas, to seventh grade students as young as 12 years old. In August 2021, a seventh grade teacher in Olathe, Kansas, published a...

defendinged.org

I mean like in real life.

No, my view is that context is needed to determine whether books are inappropriate or not. Do you really not get that (one branch of) the argument is about what is appropriate or do you think that lying is a better tactic? I think I need an answer to this before proceeding.

The passage I quoted is simply not appropriate for kids in any context. I have yet to lie about anything. I don't think the book is appropriate at all for the public school system for any grade. You can get the exact same message across without the sexually explicit material. I have nothing to lie about and nothing to worry about in this debate because I don't want kids having access to sexually explicit material.

 

[RoastBeast]

Well you removed all the context before those few lines where it describes how he consent was manipulated out of an willing kid by a family member so it makes them aware of how peer pressure plays out in real life family scenarios. Then it pretty simply describes the sex act and what it was performed on. It describes the confusion of not consenting to a sensation that is enjoyable and accurately describes where virgins minds go so it’s relatable to kids.

Part of the reason for its tone is the essay is from the POV of a young teen the and language needs to reflect how they would describe things or it’ll be a shitty story that won’t engage kids.

You’re not even debating that past approach to sex ed has produced classes full of child victims.

It does not matter what the context is. It's too sexually graphic for the public school system. "Educating" a kid that being manipulated into incestual sex can be enjoyable and have you performing like your favorite dominant porn star is not appropriate under any context for underage minors. End of story.

There are a million other appropriate ways to teach that, yet you are hung up on advocating for this book with explicit sexual material to be in the hands of kids. It's sick. Find a different way to "educate".

 

[shockaholic12]

It does not matter what the context is. It's too sexually graphic for the public school system. "Educating" a kid that being manipulated into incestual sex can be enjoyable and have you performing like your favorite dominant porn star is not appropriate under any context for underage minors. End of story.

There are a million other appropriate ways to teach that, yet you are hung up on advocating for this book with explicit sexual material to be in the hands of kids. It's sick. Find a different way to "educate".

Context certainly matters when describing how these assaults with complicated power and relationship dynamics take place.

Teaching kids that even if it didn’t feel bad it’s still sexual assault is important to getting them to disclose assaults. Oh you liked it so it was a good thing is a common manipulation predators can use.

I don’t know why you keep typing underage minors all minors are underage.

And again, you are not even debating the complete failure of the sex ed approach you’ve touted we should return to.

 

[Islam Imamate]

It can happen in any school that carries that book. I mean if you want the book to be a part of the school's curriculum, then why wouldn't teacher's have kids read it? The arguments you guys are putting forward are so bad and nonsensical.

I haven't argued for it to be in the curriculum and even explicitly argued against that.

Assigned reading is a different story, there should be higher standards for assigned readings because not only do the students not have a choice in the matter but there's also an opportunity cost as you can only assign so many books.

I would draw the line at making it an assigned reading given the opportunity cost is far greater. You can have thousands of books in a school library but realistically you're lucky if you can get kids to read half a dozen books across their high school years. Having this book be one of those half dozen books would be a bit of a tragedy.

I would draw the line at making it an assigned reading given the opportunity cost is far greater. You can have thousands of books in a school library but realistically you're lucky if you can get kids to read half a dozen books across their high school years. Having this book be one of those half dozen books would be a bit of a tragedy.

Even in the link you posted there was no mention of it being part of the curriculum and certainly no mention of a teacher reading out the graphic passages. So once again, where have you heard of a teacher assigning this book as part of the curriculum to students outside its target demographic?

 

[Islam Imamate]

Context certainly matters when describing how these assaults with complicated power and relationship dynamics take place.

Teaching kids that even if it didn’t feel bad it’s still sexual assault is important to getting them to disclose assaults. Oh you liked it so it was a good thing is a common manipulation predators can use.

I don’t know why you keep typing underage minors all minors are underage.

And again, you are not even debating the complete failure of the sex ed approach you’ve touted we should return to.

Let's be honest here, no kid needs to be taught All Boys Aren't Blue as part of sex ed or whatever. Including either they/them memoir as assigned reading would be objectionable based solely on the opportunity cost. These books probably have special appeal to students who feel some kind of affinity with the experiences or identity of the authors so I don't think there's anything wrong with having them in high school libraries but kids are not going to be molested because they didn't read either of these books.

 

[shockaholic12]

Let's be honest here, no kid needs to be taught All Boys Aren't Blue as part of sex ed or whatever. Including either they/them memoir as assigned reading would be objectionable based solely on the opportunity cost. These books probably have special appeal to students who feel some kind of affinity with the experiences or identity of the authors so I don't think there's anything wrong with having them in high school libraries but kids are not going to be molested because they didn't read either of these books.

Not claiming it needs to be mandatory reading, just things of this nature need to be part of the teaching tools available to kids in general.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Not claiming it needs to be mandatory reading, just things of this nature need to be part of the teaching tools available to kids in general.

I object to the moral panic on principle but I also don't think its matters that much either way. Students would probably be just fine with or without any they/them memoirs written by e-journalists in their library. I feel like those books are written more for the librarians and teachers than they are the students. There's a whole cottage industry of pseudo-children's works that are really meant for millennial adults.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I object to the moral panic on principle but I also don't think its matters that much either way. Students would probably be just fine with or without any they/them memoirs written by e-journalists in their library. I feel like those books are written more for the librarians and teachers than they are the students. There's a whole cottage industry of pseudo-children's works that are really meant for millennial adults.

I don't think any one book being banned makes much of a difference, but the principle could have a noticeable impact if it spreads. I also do fear that it's just a start, and that people want to bring back obscenity laws.

 

[Sara]

I don’t think legality has much bearing on moral decisions or what is necessarily developmentally appropriate for children. Imagine polygamy isn’t illegal, teach kids about it?

When you tell a kid about two penguin dads, you introduce a concept that can be confusing, and which automatically requires extra explanation for context. If we don’t give context of some kind, then the child has an incomplete view that can be harmful (eg lack of understanding about the risks of homosexuality). So this child is introduced to two penguin dads at six years old, and goes about life thinking favorably about this idea, “two dads is normal, they look so happy, no problems there.”

Unfortunately, two dads isn’t normal, and that lifestyle comes with significant risk. I don’t see why we would expose to kids to an idea that brings with it significant risk… can you explain why we need to introduce kids to a lifestyle associated with high rate of STDs, infidelity, substance abuse?

Get the fuck out of here. Committed Same sex relationships offer no more risks than a straight commuted relationship.

 

[shockaholic12]

I don’t think legality has much bearing on moral decisions or what is necessarily developmentally appropriate for children. Imagine polygamy isn’t illegal, teach kids about it?

When you tell a kid about two penguin dads, you introduce a concept that can be confusing, and which automatically requires extra explanation for context. If we don’t give context of some kind, then the child has an incomplete view that can be harmful (eg lack of understanding about the risks of homosexuality). So this child is introduced to two penguin dads at six years old, and goes about life thinking favorably about this idea, “two dads is normal, they look so happy, no problems there.”

Unfortunately, two dads isn’t normal, and that lifestyle comes with significant risk. I don’t see why we would expose to kids to an idea that brings with it significant risk… can you explain why we need to introduce kids to a lifestyle associated with high rate of STDs, infidelity, substance abuse?

Same sex parents aren't confusing. My toddler goes to school with and has play dates with classmates who have same sex parents and had no issue grasping the concept instantly. Bobby has two moms ... what part of that is confusing?

When we teach kids about christianity, you're arguing we need to tell them that the church has a long history of supporting pedophiles and preying on vulnerable children then covering it up so they understand the risk of the community, right?

Or can you explain why we introduce kids to a lifestyle associated with high rates of child sexual abuse and systematic attempts to cover it up?

Am I doing this right?

 

[Islam Imamate]

I don't think any one book being banned makes much of a difference, but the principle could have a noticeable impact if it spreads. I also do fear that it's just a start, and that people want to bring back obscenity laws.

That's why I said I object to it on principle. I don't think we'll get de jure obscenity laws back but the goal of these movements is to have a situation where there are de facto obscenity laws enforced through institutions like school boards and corporate boardrooms.

 

[PhitePhan]

Get the fuck out of here. Committed Same sex relationships offer no more risks than a straight commuted relationship.

There less committed relationships among the lgbt community, and when they are in a “committed” relationship they are much more likely to allow sex outside of the relationship.

“New research at San Francisco State University reveals just how common open relationships are among gay men and lesbians in the Bay Area. The Gay Couples Study has followed 556 male couples for three years about 50 percent of those surveyed have sex outside their relationships, with the knowledge and approval of their partners.

That consent is key. “With straight people, it’s called affairs or cheating,” said Colleen Hoff, the study’s principal investigator, “but with gay people it does not have such negative connotations.”

Many Successful Gay Marriages Share an Open Secret (Published 2010)

A study to be released next month is offering a rare glimpse inside gay relationships and reveals that monogamy is not a central feature for many.

www.nytimes.com

“Overall prevalence of infidelity: about 8% of heterosexual participants, 14% of gay participants, 6% of lesbian participants, 18% of bisexual participants, and 6% of those who described “other” sexualities reported nonconsensual nonmonogamy (defined here as agreeing to be sexually exclusive with a partner, but one or both partners cheated or had an affair).

Overall prevalence of open relationships: 2% of heterosexual participants, 32% of gay participants, 5% of lesbian participants, 22% of bisexual participants, and 14% of those who reported “other” sexualities.“

Rates of Consensual and Nonconsensual Nonmonogamy Among Heterosexual, Gay, and Bisexual Adults - Sex and Psychology

I was recently invited to write a book chapter on nonmonogamy in LGBTQ+ relationships, and one of the things I wanted to do in it was compare the prevalence of both consensual nonmonogamy (polyamory, open relationships, swinging) and nonconsensual nonmonogamy (cheating/infidelity). Further, I...

www.sexandpsychology.com

 

[PhitePhan]

Same sex parents aren't confusing. My toddler goes to school with and has play dates with classmates who have same sex parents and had no issue grasping the concept instantly. Bobby has two moms ... what part of that is confusing?

When we teach kids about christianity, you're arguing we need to tell them that the church has a long history of supporting pedophiles and preying on vulnerable children then covering it up so they understand the risk of the community, right?

Or can you explain why we introduce kids to a lifestyle associated with high rates of child sexual abuse and systematic attempts to cover it up?

Am I doing this right?

I’m not religious and don’t teach my kids about Christianity or Catholicism.

 

[shockaholic12]

I’m not religious and don’t teach my kids about Christianity or Catholicism.

As usual, you obfuscate and strawman in order to avoid the point…

Are you arguing the topic of christianity isn't present in schools or library books?

As usual, you screech when the standards you want to apply to the gay community are applied to other communities. Because they aren't standards you actually believe in but instead are punishments selectively applied to gay folks because you hold some hate for them.

 

[Sara]

There less committed relationships among the lgbt community, and when they are in a “committed” relationship they are much more likely to allow sex outside of the relationship.

“New research at San Francisco State University reveals just how common open relationships are among gay men and lesbians in the Bay Area. The Gay Couples Study has followed 556 male couples for three years about 50 percent of those surveyed have sex outside their relationships, with the knowledge and approval of their partners.

That consent is key. “With straight people, it’s called affairs or cheating,” said Colleen Hoff, the study’s principal investigator, “but with gay people it does not have such negative connotations.”

Many Successful Gay Marriages Share an Open Secret (Published 2010)

A study to be released next month is offering a rare glimpse inside gay relationships and reveals that monogamy is not a central feature for many.

www.nytimes.com

“Overall prevalence of infidelity: about 8% of heterosexual participants, 14% of gay participants, 6% of lesbian participants, 18% of bisexual participants, and 6% of those who described “other” sexualities reported nonconsensual nonmonogamy (defined here as agreeing to be sexually exclusive with a partner, but one or both partners cheated or had an affair).

Overall prevalence of open relationships: 2% of heterosexual participants, 32% of gay participants, 5% of lesbian participants, 22% of bisexual participants, and 14% of those who reported “other” sexualities.“

Rates of Consensual and Nonconsensual Nonmonogamy Among Heterosexual, Gay, and Bisexual Adults - Sex and Psychology

I was recently invited to write a book chapter on nonmonogamy in LGBTQ+ relationships, and one of the things I wanted to do in it was compare the prevalence of both consensual nonmonogamy (polyamory, open relationships, swinging) and nonconsensual nonmonogamy (cheating/infidelity). Further, I...

www.sexandpsychology.com

And there are less committed heterosexual relationships, there are relationships with spousal abuse, neglect, single mother, single father, etc all problems that can happen in any family.

you can find articles online to support anything you want.

 

[PhitePhan]

And there are less committed heterosexual relationships, there are relationships with spousal abuse, neglect, single mother, single father, etc all problems that can happen in any family.

you can find articles online to support anything you want.

Can you find something online that shows 50% of committed hetero relationships accept sex outside of the committed relationship?

 

[RoastBeast]

Context certainly matters when describing how these assaults with complicated power and relationship dynamics take place.

Teaching kids that even if it didn’t feel bad it’s still sexual assault is important to getting them to disclose assaults. Oh you liked it so it was a good thing is a common manipulation predators can use.

I don’t know why you keep typing underage minors all minors are underage.

And again, you are not even debating the complete failure of the sex ed approach you’ve touted we should return to.

Completely inappropriate. Should kids also feel like they need to perform like their favorite dominant porn star? What's inappropriate is inappropriate. Your arguments here are insanely weak. The normal liberals of yesteryear would have agreed that this book was inappropriate and moved on arguing for a similar message in an appropriate book.

Find a different mound to die on man. This book ain't it. There are FAR better ways to educate children than having them read a book like that and they would make your side look like creepy as well.

I haven't argued for it to be in the curriculum and even explicitly argued against that.



Even in the link you posted there was no mention of it being part of the curriculum and certainly no mention of a teacher reading out the graphic passages. So once again, where have you heard of a teacher assigning this book as part of the curriculum to students outside its target demographic?

Is your argument really just merely based on whether the book is assigned reading or not? It doesn't matter if a book is assigned reading or just sitting on the shelf in the library. If it is made available and it is inappropriate for kids, then that is wrong. It should not be available to them at all in the public school system. If you as a parent want to buy your kid something like that, then go ahead.

I'm glad you don't advocate for inappropriate material but it's still odd that you seem to be okay with inappropriate material in school libraries as long as it's not assigned reading. If it's inappropriate, then it's inappropriate. It doesn't stop being inappropriate because it's not assigned reading. That's just faulty logic man.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Is your argument really just merely based on whether the book is assigned reading or not? It doesn't matter if a book is assigned reading or just sitting on the shelf in the library. If it is made available and it is inappropriate for kids, then that is wrong. It should not be available to them at all in the public school system. If you as a parent want to buy your kid something like that, then go ahead.

I'm glad you don't advocate for inappropriate material but it's still odd that you seem to be okay with inappropriate material in school libraries as long as it's not assigned reading. If it's inappropriate, then it's inappropriate. It doesn't stop being inappropriate because it's not assigned reading. That's just faulty logic man.

The memoirs are in the young adult category so they are age appropriate for high school students which is why they are almost always in high school libraries. The reason I would be against them being assigned reading is because students only read a few books throughout their high school years so there's an opportunity cost to assigning books as part of the curriculum that is far greater than when stocking a library with thousands of books.

 

[spamking]

 

[Islam Imamate]

She seems a bit unhinged if you ask me.