Karo vs Sokoudjou Judo Match - Questions for Judo Enthusiasts

[dsdoubled]

Many years ago I read an interview with Karo Parisyan in Ultimate Grappling Magazine where he was asked about his Judo career and his match with Sokoudjou came up. I believe this was right around the time Sokoudjou had KO'd Lil Nog in Pride so he had some buzz. Karo mentioned that Sokoudjou was "bizarrely strong. Like, bizarrely strong..." but Karo was able to defeat him with technique. Now I am not a judo expert but I enjoy the sport. To me the match looks to be a stalemate until Karo basically shoots a single leg and wins the match.

Is this the type of attack that is now banned in judo competition? Also, I noticed Karo still made an effort to land Sokoudjou on his back. Was this so he could win the match by ippon or were they in some sort of overtime? And finally, what do you make of the relatively skill level of each guy here? How high level were they?

 

[ArtemV]

This attack is now banned, any standing leg contact with hands results in a shido (penalty).

I am not sure if this is in overtime or not. However, it doesn't look like it is, before 2017, you could win a fight with shidos without a score.

As for their skill level.. probably not very high. Being from Gokor's academy or not, I don't believe he has had a lot of international success (like USA in general, with some exceptions).

and African judo... lol

I mean, there are not many countries who can compare with France/Russia/Japan and South Korea in Judo, so it isn't too bad to not be at their level.

 

[QingTian]

Is this the type of attack that is now banned in judo competition? Also, I noticed Karo still made an effort to land Sokoudjou on his back. Was this so he could win the match by ippon or were they in some sort of overtime? And finally, what do you make of the relatively skill level of each guy here? How high level were they?

Yes, illegal now. For ippon.

If this were BJJ style belting, I'd say here Karo maybe is a purple and Sok maybe a blue.

 

[Bluesbreaker]

You're correct in thinking this technique is now banned.

As for the throw itself, it would be instinctive for Karo to get uke landing on his back - as you can see, Sokoudjou was trying to turn onto his face. If he had successfully turned, there would be no score. I don't think he was expecting ippon, but at least a score to win. Those types of techniques were difficult to score ippon with.

 

[dsdoubled]

You're correct in thinking this technique is now banned.

As for the throw itself, it would be instinctive for Karo to get uke landing on his back - as you can see, Sokoudjou was trying to turn onto his face. If he had successfully turned, there would be no score. I don't think he was expecting ippon, but at least a score to win. Those types of techniques were difficult to score ippon with.

Its interesting, if you watch Karos judo highlights he seemed to score a lot with what looks to me like a duplex. Maybe the influence of his training at Hayastan? Armenians are damn good at greco and Karo's S&C coach was a world level greco guy.

 

[Bluesbreaker]

I'm sure there was some cross-pollination. We've also seen a bunch of judo guys in MMA, whose grappling ends up looking like Greco with trips. I think that's just part of what happens.

 

[RJ Green]

whenever people tell me Teddy is the GOAT, I'm like 'yeah, post-pickups', and this match is why.

#bringbackleggrabs
#makejudogreatagain

 

[dsdoubled]

whenever people tell me Teddy is the GOAT, I'm like 'yeah, post-pickups', and this match is why.

#bringbackleggrabs
#makejudogreatagain

If I was a judoka, especially a judoka with designs on entering MMA, id really want the leg attacks. It seems the effectiveness of an entire martial art has been greatly diminished because of the IOC. On the other hand, from an Olympics POV, I guess judo was too similar to wrestling when it had leg attacks.

 

[selfcritical]

whenever people tell me Teddy is the GOAT, I'm like 'yeah, post-pickups', and this match is why.

#bringbackleggrabs
#makejudogreatagain

....I want leg grabs back, but if you look at when people score on him, those leg attacks were emphatically not his weakness- Teddy is utterly dominant in his gripfighting, and if he's got the sleeve and the high collar grip (which he always does) you aren't shooting on shit.

 

[dsdoubled]

and African judo... lol

I mean, there are not many countries who can compare with France/Russia/Japan and South Korea in Judo, so it isn't too bad to not be at their level.

I find it interesting that Russia has not had a mens judo world champ since 2011 and they usually placed around 8 - 10th as a team. However, if you looks at the last 2 Olympics they've had 5 golds. Obviously I can see the Olympics bringing out the best in a country and an individual but its still surprising. Not like wrestling.

 

[ArtemV]

I find it interesting that Russia has not had a mens judo world champ since 2011 and they usually placed around 8 - 10th as a team. However, if you looks at the last 2 Olympics they've had 5 golds. Obviously I can see the Olympics bringing out the best in a country and an individual but its still surprising. Not like wrestling.

Agreed, we have come close many times... Pulyaev(twice), Mshivobadze, Denisov (three times I believe) and so on..

There is always next year.. I think Igolnikov has the best shot at Russian gold though.

 

[yetanother]

On the other hand, from an Olympics POV, I guess judo was too similar to wrestling when it had leg attacks.

Not sure if that was even a real factor, most wrestling style leg attacks are killed by gi grips so it looks different.

 

[RJ Green]

....I want leg grabs back, but if you look at when people score on him, those leg attacks were emphatically not his weakness- Teddy is utterly dominant in his gripfighting, and if he's got the sleeve and the high collar grip (which he always does) you aren't shooting on shit.

it's an apples-to-oranges comparison at this point, because i think anybody who'd have been able to double-leg him left the sport. you're on point about the gripfighting, but i blame the damn 'no bear hugs' rules for that one.

some studly sambo player could've put Teddy on his back a long time ago, and like most people, probably ran out of fucks to give about Judo

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

some studly sambo player could've put Teddy on his back a long time ago, and like most people, probably ran out of fucks to give about Judo

That would be Vitaly Minakov.
He claims he threw Teddy several times in practice.
And this is how a possible Judo match between them will go:

 

[Bluesbreaker]

Tall Poppy Syndrome?

 

[SBC]

On a side note, have any of you tried a hand at freestyle judo???

 

[Kbits]

On a side note, have any of you tried a hand at freestyle judo???

If by tried you mean teach it, sure It's just oldschool judo - te guruma-ing motherfuckers onto their heads

Honestly though, with all the kneebars, the bright red Kurtka (and the red sambofki I wear to wrestling these days: much nicer on knees than wrestling shoes), I may as well be a filthy commie.

I'm hoping to go to LA next year for JudoCON 19, which is the IFJA (Freestyle) convention/camp.

http://www.freestylejudo.org/how-to-join-the-ifja/

 

[SBC]

If by tried you mean teach it, sure It's just oldschool judo - te guruma-ing motherfuckers onto their heads

Honestly though, with all the kneebars, the bright red Kurtka (and the red sambofki I wear to wrestling these days: much nicer on knees than wrestling shoes), I may as well be a filthy commie.

I'm hoping to go to LA next year for JudoCON 19, which is the IFJA (Freestyle) convention/camp.

http://www.freestylejudo.org/how-to-join-the-ifja/

Wow, really cool! I have a Judo school near me that I used to go to before I was injured, and want to get back into it, but I don't know if anyone there has competed in Freestyle Judo. Funny, as a lot of the best students there practice both wrestling and judo, and the sensei holds a blackbelt in BJJ as well. Literally found out about the whole no-gi freestyle judo movement on a podcast I was listening to. I would really like to train, I want an all encompassing grappling style.

 

[Kbits]

You probably heard about it on Dave Roman's Judo Chop Suey podcast

Competition for freestyle is small I think...but by the time you decide to go that route, you're less likely to be precious about "rules" and "reigi" and so would compete in anything going (wrestling, bjj, Sambo - whatever).

BJJ comps are probably the way to go, as they're ubiquitous. I know that the Australian Kodokan Judo Association still competes on the old ruleset. Likely the same happens elsewhere without being branded as Freestyle.

I'm with you (and Reilly Bodycomb) on this: develop a skill set that works everywhere.

https://player.fm/series/the-strenu...ly-bodycomb-on-sambo-leglocks-and-competition