Kicking the arms strategy?

[ARIZE]

Have any if you guys considered blocking kicks by punching the foot? I learned this in kung fu (i know kung fu sucks) and used it relentlessly against kickers.

Can you break down the technique? I have a very hard time visualizing what you mean. If we take 2 fighters in the orthodox stance, the attacker throws a rear leg mid roundhouse, how will you punch the foot? You will punch with the right hand, like an hook? Or you use a left straight?

 

[franklinstower]

Can you break down the technique? I have a very hard time visualizing what you mean. If we take 2 fighters in the orthodox stance, the attacker throws a rear leg mid roundhouse, how will you punch the foot? You will punch with the right hand, like an hook? Or you use a left straight?

It depends on the kick and your positioning.

If its an up kick coming to your stomach you bring the fist straight down to the foot while moving backwards also.

If its a round house to the face you just punch with your right hand while rotating your torso.

If its a kick to the ribs same rotation but your right forearm is horizontal across your own belly at the end of the block.

You can also step back out of the way with laft foot as you throw it.

Remember that the kick is providing most the power. You just have to be fast and solid when they connect.

These are all through our forms and my teacher was a big fan of them and its one of the techniques I really picked up on.

This is low level guys againts low level guys mind you but all things being equal it should still work. The 4 ounc gloves have me wonering it it would really hurt in MMA though...

You have to get decent at reading where the kick is coming in to.

 

[ARIZE]

Yeah but no...
First of all, even if it's doable, one miss and you will get hurt badly. You must every time perfectly target a moving foot coming at you, dead in the center... If you miss even by little, you can get your knuckles against a shin (guess the result), or you get hit right in the face because the foot slides on the glove...
And to add that you want to block a strike coming from your left, with your right hand, while turning to the left... Guess what's coming after the right kick? A left straight to your unprotected face from the right.
Sorry, but that wont do...
Just the idea to extant the arm to block a strike is a big problem against feints, but what you describe is not viable in MT whatsoever.

 

[franklinstower]

Yeah but no...
First of all, even if it's doable, one miss and you will get hurt badly. You must every time perfectly target a moving foot coming at you, dead in the center... If you miss even by little, you can get your knuckles against a shin (guess the result), or you get hit right in the face because the foot slides on the glove...
And to add that you want to block a strike coming from your left, with your right hand, while turning to the left... Guess what's coming after the right kick? A left straight to your unprotected face from the right.
Sorry, but that wont do...
Just the idea to extant the arm to block a strike is a big problem against feints, but what you describe is not viable in MT whatsoever.

Yeah but no...
First of all, even if it's doable, one miss and you will get hurt badly. You must every time perfectly target a moving foot coming at you, dead in the center... If you miss even by little, you can get your knuckles against a shin (guess the result), or you get hit right in the face because the foot slides on the glove...
And to add that you want to block a strike coming from your left, with your right hand, while turning to the left... Guess what's coming after the right kick? A left straight to your unprotected face from the right.
Sorry, but that wont do...
Just the idea to extant the arm to block a strike is a big problem against feints, but what you describe is not viable in MT whatsoever.

I've done it so many times successfully against people that do kickboxing that your post just seems like a total failure of imagination. Yes the right is coming according to your own words so you either shuffle out of the way or block with the same right hand immediately after or use the left hand to block. I've also seen Machida do its cousin with beautiful perfection in the ring. The cousin blocks and then comes around with a strike with the left immediately after.

Every technique has strengths and weaknesses.​

 

[ARIZE]

Every technique has strengths and weaknesses.

What the fuck? Of course no. There are a bunch of techniques that are completely useless, and there are a bunch of techniques that the risk outweighs so much the reward, there is no point of training them seriously for competition. Like jumping over a low kick for example... or punching your opponents kick... You can't possibly say that every technique has strengths. Some just don't work, period.

Anyway, I don't really have anything else to add, so I will leave it to that.

 

[franklinstower]

What the fuck? Of course no. There are a bunch of techniques that are completely useless, and there are a bunch of techniques that the risk outweighs so much the reward, there is no point of training them seriously for competition. Like jumping over a low kick for example... or punching your opponents kick... You can't possibly say that every technique has strengths. Some just don't work, period.

Anyway, I don't really have anything else to add, so I will leave it to that.

Closed mind.

 

[aerius]

It depends on the kick and your positioning.

If its an up kick coming to your stomach you bring the fist straight down to the foot while moving backwards also.

If its a round house to the face you just punch with your right hand while rotating your torso.

If its a kick to the ribs same rotation but your right forearm is horizontal across your own belly at the end of the block.

You can also step back out of the way with laft foot as you throw it.

Remember that the kick is providing most the power. You just have to be fast and solid when they connect.

These are all through our forms and my teacher was a big fan of them and its one of the techniques I really picked up on.

This is low level guys againts low level guys mind you but all things being equal it should still work. The 4 ounc gloves have me wonering it it would really hurt in MMA though...

You have to get decent at reading where the kick is coming in to.

You might be able to make it work against some TMA style kicks that land with the foot or instep, but against a Thai style kick that lands with the shin it's not going to happen since the foot is hidden behind you. When the kick lands like this, you're not intercepting the foot with your fist.

 

[franklinstower]

You might be able to make it work against some TMA style kicks that land with the foot or instep, but against a Thai style kick that lands with the shin it's not going to happen since the foot is hidden behind you. When the kick lands like this, you're not intercepting the foot with your fist.

I did it with kick boxers.

I would not attempt on a chin obviously.

 

[General_Speckz]

Just because something works 1-15 or however many times in a row doesn't mean it will stand up to the law of large numbers.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbers

Faith and heart can get you far, but eventually the piper comes a callin.

The reasons why people use established techniques in the fight game is because theyre forged in the ring over many years.

Doesn't mean punching a kick won't work - especially because its unexpected, but when people catch on.. yikes.

Edit: bonus objective, try to resolve the gamblers fallacy with the law of large numbers, pretty mind warping, but useful.

https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/971913/gamblers-fallacy-and-the-law-of-large-numbers

 

[franklinstower]

Just because something works 1-15 or however many times in a row doesn't mean it will stand up to the law of large numbers.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbers

Faith and heart can get you far, but eventually the piper comes a callin.

The reasons why people use established techniques in the fight game is because theyre forged in the ring over many years.

Doesn't mean punching a kick won't work - especially because its unexpected, but when people catch on.. yikes.

Edit: bonus objective, try to resolve the gamblers fallacy with the law of large numbers, pretty mind warping, but useful.

https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/971913/gamblers-fallacy-and-the-law-of-large-numbers

I was able to land that technique at will in my prime. I dont really see what is so hard about it. They bring the foot to you......

What I am hearing is a lack of imagination and a bias towards dogma that is passed off as realism. Ever heard of elbow blocks? Me too -- and I think those are harder to land than what Im talking about.

If you guys were the Wright Brothers we still would not have planes. If you guys were Machida Karate would still be useless in REAL fighting.

Americants.

 

[General_Speckz]

Lyoto Machida is my favorite MMA fighter of all time. A lot of his success depends on the large number of feints and dancing away.

The pure physics of punching a strong shin doesn't work because you could break your hand pretty easily. Not in every case, maybe this "kickboxer" didn't have trained shins. If you're going to make the claim at least provide context, please. Shin guards, actual fight or drill? Etc. It's not that people don't believe you because its impossible, you just have to justify it with proper context.

 

[aerius]

I did it with kick boxers.

I would not attempt on a chin obviously.

We go back to the photo in my previous post of a traditional Thai style round kick. Notice where the foot is.
My question for you: how do you land a fist on the foot without putting yourself badly out of position?

 

[franklinstower]

We go back to the photo in my previous post of a traditional Thai style round kick. Notice where the foot is.
My question for you: how do you land a fist on the foot without putting yourself badly out of position?

I already answered that dummy. Stupid question gets stupid response.

Poor guy. Maybe you took to many shots to the head to read huh? Its ok man but next time try this block and save your head.

 

[aerius]

I already answered that dummy. Stupid question gets stupid response.

Poor guy. Maybe you took to many shots to the head to read huh? Its ok man but next time try this block and save your head.

I don't know what part of Sherdog you normally hang out in cause I don't think I've seen you before, but that's not way things work around here. You've made a claim that this particular technique of yours works. We're asking you explain how it would be applied in actual combat sport situations. If we can't have a civilized discussion, which, judging from your response, probably ain't happening, it's either join Spacetime on the ignore list or go bugger off to wherever shithole you crawled out of.

 

[franklinstower]

I don't know what part of Sherdog you normally hang out in cause I don't think I've seen you before, but that's not way things work around here. You've made a claim that this particular technique of yours works. We're asking you explain how it would be applied in actual combat sport situations. If we can't have a civilized discussion, which, judging from your response, probably ain't happening, it's either join Spacetime on the ignore list or go bugger off to wherever shithole you crawled out of.

Ive already explained about the shin but you just didnt read it. Do you read in here?

 

[AndyMaBobs]

It takes some skill but we trained full contact and it was/is a staple technique for our style. I sparred full contact with kickboxers all the time and it was always effective. You just have to practice it until its a natural movement to make.

One hard punch with knuckles on the top of a foot and you re-think kicking someone after that.

If someone is trying to kick you with their foot and not their shin then they need to rethink their technique

 

[franklinstower]

If someone is trying to kick you with their foot and not their shin then they need to rethink their technique

That may be true but on the other hand you see it a ton in the UFC so it is quite common for kicks to land that way.

 

[General_Speckz]

I got mixed up because you spelled shin as chin, lol.

I could see it working if no hand wraps/gloves/shoes but maybe depends how loose they are. Would you only do it to roundhouses that were short? Trying to do it to a front kick seems questionable because the opportunity for a question mark/Brazilian kick.

I always liked TKD cuz in a street fight you wear shoes, so kicking with your foot is convenient in that context.

In a street fight Charlie horsing a deltoid with your knuckles is a good way to discourage someone, and even end the fight. It can disable their shoulder.

 

[franklinstower]

I got mixed up because you spelled shin as chin, lol.

I could see it working if no hand wraps/gloves/shoes but maybe depends how loose they are. Would you only do it to roundhouses that were short? Trying to do it to a front kick seems questionable because the opportunity for a question mark/Brazilian kick.

I always liked TKD cuz in a street fight you wear shoes, so kicking with your foot is convenient in that context.

In a street fight Charlie horsing a deltoid with your knuckles is a good way to discourage someone, and even end the fight. It can disable their shoulder.

We did it with front kicks too but you step back with the front foot to evade while applying the block so that you are more out of range.

I like what you said about punching a deltoid stopping a fight. We were taught a lot of those kind of things (not that one though) including crushing blows to the collar bone, punching forearms of incoming punches, upward fist blocks targeting the elbow of incoming punches and powerful downward strikes to the bladder too.... just a lot of unusual targets.

My instructor was fully conditioned. His shins were grey from hitting them with wood and his knuckles and forearms were numb to pain from conditioning them.

He was a huge proponent for attacking the opponents incoming weapons. He would hit peoples fists, forearms, feet etc.

He had a grip from training with sand bags that was terrible too. He could grab the flesh on both sides of a persons ribs and tear with the full force of his strength without losing his grip.

On the other hand all of that traditional hardening and conditioning was stuff he told us not to do because he said later in life you will hurt because of it so I did not do much of it although some people did.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

That may be true but on the other hand you see it a ton in the UFC so it is quite common for kicks to land that way.

It happens for sure, but you don't want to build your defence around capitalising on a bad habit