Kyokushin vs TKD?

[Muerto]

Ok. Disclaimer: No Flame Wars, Goddammit....

As for Kyokushin Karate versus TKD (WTF style, to be exact)... I think you all know where I stand... (they're equal in my view). But I'd like your opinions please.

Do you guys think that this matchup is mostly based on the skill of the respective practitioners or do you believe one of these styles is superior and if so, why and by how much?

 

[feedback]

You Fucking Guido Bastard

 

[Deleted member 64073]

I've got one word and one word only for you muerto...

Wenis

That is all.

 

[PUTnWORK]

tkd is like point sparring, yoyu can even be penalized for hitting or kicking too hard. you cannot hurt your opponent in competition.

Kyokushin is tough as nails <bas used to do kyokushin> In competition they go balls out hitting and kicking as hard as they can. <no head punches, but head kicks and knees are allowed. a kyokushin guy practices bare knuckle punching relentlessly, w/o wrist/hand wraps <they have solid hands and wrists> not like boxers who wrap their wrists, boxers would most likely break their hand or wrist in a street fight. A kyokushin can hit you full force w/o risk of injury. In competition you can imagine missing a body blow and accidintly hitting someones hip bone<ouch> everyday business for kyokushin karate .
this is the only karate that I give lots of respect to

 

[Reveen]

tkd is like point sparring, yoyu can even be penalized for hitting or kicking too hard. you cannot hurt your opponent in competition.

You're thinking of ITF TKD.

 

[Deleted member 64073]

a kyokushin guy practices bare knuckle punching relentlessly, w/o wrist/hand wraps <they have solid hands and wrists> not like boxers who wrap their wrists, boxers would most likely break their hand or wrist in a street fight. A kyokushin can hit you full force w/o risk of injury.

If youre punching hard enough and the proper way are bound to brake your fist.
Kyokushin must not punch hard if you can say that or not right. If a Normal Kyokushin guy were to punch some 25 year old in the forehead right at the hair line I bet theres a good chance of him braking his fist, considering they dont punch to the head thats probably why they dont brake stuff.
Often times a boxer in a street fight will brake his wrist, or fist not on some ones jaw, but on someones skull.

 

[Ryo]

I can't say much about TKD because I haven't had much experience with it. But I have sparred with a few Kyokushin guys, and I can tell you from my experience they are tough as all fuck. They deffinately know how to kick, they seemed to be able to do all these flashy kinds of kicks and still be effifcient with them. Also most kyokushinkai I have seen train about as hard as Kickboxing and MT fighters. So just from my experience, I can say that a good Kyokushin fighter would give just about anybody a hard time reguardless of the style.

 

[PUTnWORK]

I can't say much about TKD because I haven't had much experience with it. But I have sparred with a few Kyokushin guys, and I can tell you from my experience they are tough as all fuck. They deffinately know how to kick, they seemed to be able to do all these flashy kinds of kicks and still be effifcient with them. Also most kyokushinkai I have seen train about as hard as Kickboxing and MT fighters. So just from my experience, I can say that a good Kyokushin fighter would give just about anybody a hard time reguardless of the style.

amen

 

[PUTnWORK]

If youre punching hard enough and the proper way are bound to brake your fist.
Kyokushin must not punch hard if you can say that or not right. If a Normal Kyokushin guy were to punch some 25 year old in the forehead right at the hair line I bet theres a good chance of him braking his fist, considering they dont punch to the head thats probably why they dont brake stuff.
Often times a boxer in a street fight will brake his wrist, or fist not on some ones jaw, but on someones skull.

you sound like an expert, maybe I'll trust you on this one. do you have a collection of street brawls dvds or something

 

[MMADork]

muerto, why dont you be a man and make your own decision about things. Im sick of your postwhoring.

 

[Gregster]

tkd is like point sparring, yoyu can even be penalized for hitting or kicking too hard. you cannot hurt your opponent in competition.

What Big_one said. In WTF/Olympic TKD, you usually have to hit hard-- enough enough for the blow to move your opponent and be obvious to the judges-- to score. And you can win by knocking someone out cold.

Look up some of Kyryllo's highlight reels of the last Summer Olympics; guys were getting the taste knocked out of their mouths, out cold, checked out with no forwarding address. TKD is not the sissy-boy slap-boxing people often portray it.

Muerto: my answer to this question and every other like it: it's ain't the style, it's the fighter. How well one is trained, how well they accept the training, how well they apply it in the ring, skill, instinct, experience, and any number of factors including sheer luck affect the outcome of a fight. Anyone who says "Style A will always dominate Style B because _____" is talking out of their ass.

 

[Muerto]

Everybody seems to be so.. angry. And yet these angry people haven't even contributed anything to the thread. Thanks for your truthful input, Gregster.

Does anyone else have opinions?

Although this applies more to TKD, both TKD and Kyokushin seem to revolve around kicking well.

 

[MMADork]

Everyone is pissed because your threads are lame. Dude, read a book to find the answers to your dumb questions. Get off the computer and train. If you spend as much time training as you do postwhoring, youll be a champ in no time.

 

[Groucho]

Background: for 4 academic years, spread over 5 calendar years (work terms), I studied TKD at my university's TKD club...got my red belt...have great respect for it

for 5 years solid, I trained Kyokushin in Japan...got shodan there...still at it, but WAY less since my daughter showed up..

Just so we're clear.

As for Kyokushin Karate versus TKD (WTF style, to be exact)... I think you all know where I stand... (they're equal in my view)...

You state this, IMHO, because you've never done kyokushin. Even though there is heavy contact in WTF sparring, it's heavily padded. In KK training, no padding, ever. Sometimes guys tape their wrists, but I honestly think this is mostly to look tough...KK made me a much tougher fighter, and I mos def have better inside skills.

TKD wasn't as demanding, in my experience...never once did I encouter the 20 or 30 man kumite or something like it as a ranking test in TKD

Do you guys think that this matchup is mostly based on the skill of the respective practitioners or do you believe one of these styles is superior and if so, why and by how much?

Superior style? no such thing...it's a combination...a certain type of person sticks with KK and grows to love it...in the hands of such a person KK will be a devastating style, 'cuz we tend toward being a little psycho about it...a KK type personality likely wouldn't explore TKD to its fullest potential, so it would be the weaker art in their hands...

 

[Groucho]

Kyokushin must not punch hard if you can say that or not right. If a Normal Kyokushin guy were to punch some 25 year old in the forehead right at the hair line I bet theres a good chance of him braking his fist, considering they dont punch to the head thats probably why they dont brake stuff.

Not to put you down, dude...

You seem to have no idea about the training we do in KK...

True, no head punches in competition...but that doesn't mean we don't train them...by brown belt, guys are required to be able to crank out 70 knuckle push ups...we punch the makwara relentlessly...ties are broken by breaking contests...the normal KK guy has really toughened his hands...

the hand/wrist breaking scenario you post is very likely, but more due to the fact that, in my case at least, the punch is in the process of missing, so the hand/wrist will be in bad alignment to absorb the force of the blow...which is what causes most hand/wrist breaks anyway...

..and trust me, we punch hard...it's a point of honour...

 

[aaron_mag]

As far as I can tell KK and TKD are the same damn thing (ITF at least). There is no difference in the techniques.

The key difference is in how they train. KK guys train at a much higher level than almost anyone else. It is possible to have a class full of young tough guys in ANY style who could train at a similar training level to KK, but it just doesn't happen too often. Add one 12 year old to the class and a soccer mom and suddenly things change a bit.

Not that I have anything wrong with a mixed population in the class. My wife is in TKD (I met her there). She is quite athletic too. But we both know that if I just hauled off and kicked her with everything I got she would be seriously injured. I outweigh her by 80 pounds after all!

These sorts of things change the way an art is practiced. The difference in KK and other TMA styles is not really about style, it is about the type of student that walks through the door. This is why we see KK guys transitioning into K1. Their technique is the same as all the other TMAs, but their training is true 'old school'.

 

[boooya777]

took em both. more emphasis on kicks in TKD tho

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

tkd is like point sparring, yoyu can even be penalized for hitting or kicking too hard. you cannot hurt your opponent in competition.

No.

It's amazing how many people here on Sherdog don't have any clue whatsoever about martial arts.

As for the question:

Kyokushin guy and TKD guy with equal skill, in a full contact match, the Kyokushin guy would eat the TKD guy for breakfast.

Because he trains full contact without protection. TKD guy probably trains full contact WITH protection. That would make all the difference.

As far as technique goes, they are very similar, with the kicking edge going to TKD. But it's not about technique.

It's about training methods and what sort of punishment you're used to.

 

[Groucho]

As far as I can tell KK and TKD are the same damn thing (ITF at least). There is no difference in the techniques..

the same can be said of any 2 North East asian styles...it comes down to the simple fact that you can only propel the limbs and body through space in so many, finite ways...TKD says "toe-MAH-toe", we say "toe-MAY-toe"...there are differences: philosophy, kata, degree of emphasis on breaking, sparring style...some KK guys are def headhunters...most of us are in love with seiken in all its forms...

These sorts of things change the way an art is practiced. The difference in KK and other TMA styles is not really about style, it is about the type of student that walks through the door. This is why we see KK guys transitioning into K1. Their technique is the same as all the other TMAs, but their training is true 'old school'.

Train Korean stylists in our style and you'd be hard pressed to spot meaningful difference...they'd still likely kick more, that's about it...

as for K1, when I was in Japan, there was a feeling within the KK community (my part of it, anyway...) that Seido was less hardcore and trying to usurp our title as most hardcore badasses in karate...so there was a push to get KK fighters into the K1 scene to put the Seido guys (many of whom were in KK to start) into the backseat where it was felt they belonged...

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

If youre punching hard enough and the proper way are bound to brake your fist.
Kyokushin must not punch hard if you can say that or not right. If a Normal Kyokushin guy were to punch some 25 year old in the forehead right at the hair line I bet theres a good chance of him braking his fist, considering they dont punch to the head thats probably why they dont brake stuff.
Often times a boxer in a street fight will brake his wrist, or fist not on some ones jaw, but on someones skull.

A Kyokushin guy (an experienced guy) will not break their fist on somebody's forehead.

There is, of course, the possibility of hitting something wrong, in which case yes, they can break a hand. Which can happen in a real fight, of course.

But a properly executed Kyokushin punch is unlikely to result in a broken bone. That's why these guys can punch through bricks and stuff.

The problem with boxing is that it's a sport with gloves, and many techniques rely on this fact. Bareknuckle hooks are begging for a broken fist.

A traditional Karate straight is unlikely to result in a break, even when hitting really hard things.