Let's talk about being in someone's guard/passing

[IamnotJonFitch]

Or talk about the initial start of a roll.

I've been struggling with this, it's definitely the weakest part of my game.

I don't struggle with armbars or triangles or anything like that, but I do struggle with A) breaking a good guard while keeping a good base and B) not getting the worse of a scramble. I/E, someone takes my back or gets a sweep on me.

I feel like I have been letting people close around me without much effort at the beginning of rolls and I'm just now rectifying this: going for a lasso or stacking pass before I get in their open guards. However, I've been losing. Most purple belts or decent blue belts win at this. I suck at getting the right grips.

I feel like I don't have the right game plan and I'm all kinds of scattered initially. Lots of guys have a thing that they know works for their body and they go with it, and then go from there, and I don't really have anything like that.

Today was particularly gruesome, as I went against all higher belts and I got smashed all starting from my poor decisions at the beginning of a roll. I got Twistered, Peruvian neck tied and just played with all because I let people get rid of my base and get the superior grips, but that's because I really don't know what I should be doing from the start of a roll besides some sort of lasso.

You guys have been immensely helpful, any advice on this predicament? I try to be a top pressure player and I'm a short, heavy guy with a small neck and small limbs. Just so you can have some reference on how to help a guy my body type.

 

[Uchi Mata]

So, you got beat by better guys who have more technique, and they made you feel like you didn't know how to react? That's not a specific problem, that's the life of a new guy. I'd say you just need to keep training. The more you train, the less this will happen. What you're basically asking is 'how do I get better at jiu jitsu?'. You'll figure it out with mat time, just like we all had to.

 

[IamnotJonFitch]

So, you got beat by better guys who have more technique, and they made you feel like you didn't know how to react? That's not a specific problem, that's the life of a new guy. I'd say you just need to keep training. The more you train, the less this will happen. What you're basically asking is 'how do I get better at jiu jitsu?'. You'll figure it out with mat time, just like we all had to.

Haha, you're certainly not wrong.

The only objection I'd have to what you said is that this is my biggest struggling point, starting a roll. Like anything else I've learned in grappling, there are tips and tricks that don't need to be ground out over many years to figure out-I should say that I assume there are. Clearly I wouldn't know. I'm sure that in two years, this will be less of a problem and this thread wouldn't have been necessary. However, maybe if there's some applicable advice, maybe in two weeks this will be less of a problem. With all due respect my friend.

So, with that said, are any basic but effective tips anyone would care to share?

 

[MC Paul Barman]

Let's talk about being in someone's guard/passing

Ahh... the birds and the bees conversation. Fitting with 'prom season' being upon us.

 

[FATC]

So what do you generally do while in their guard? I try to make the carry my weight. I tripod and use a forearm in the throat (deep so they cant get an arm triangle from it) or put pressure on their diaphragm. I don't want them to feel comfortable. I normally read people and see how they react to that to see what I'm going to do from there. I drop my weight back down if they try and sweep. I have a safe zone I always go back to when they try to sweep or attack if I'm not in a good position to pass.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Haha, you're certainly not wrong.

The only objection I'd have to what you said is that this is my biggest struggling point, starting a roll. Like anything else I've learned in grappling, there are tips and tricks that don't need to be ground out over many years to figure out-I should say that I assume there are. Clearly I wouldn't know. I'm sure that in two years, this will be less of a problem and this thread wouldn't have been necessary. However, maybe if there's some applicable advice, maybe in two weeks this will be less of a problem. With all due respect my friend.

So, with that said, are any basic but effective tips anyone would care to share?

Assuming you're starting on top and your opponent is pulling guard:

1. Fight for grips. Don't let him get strong grips on your sleeves or collar right off the bat and break your posture.

2. Keep one knee up at all times to avoid being pulling into closed guard

3. Try to get a pant or ankle grip and use it to put him on his back, then get a foot in between his legs and start working passes.

If he's not pulling guard, you pull guard. Don't knee wrestle, it's a waste of time. Also, if you're a white belt rolling with purple belts, make peace with being swept. It's going to happen, and there's no advice anyone online can give you that will stop it. Dealing all the various open guard variations is also a huge topic, so unless you have a more specific question this is about all I can tell you.

 

[GKY]

Uchi summarized everything I wanted to say, so instead I would like to emphasize the point about grips.

Being on bottom in guard is all about grips, particularly in gi. I can't be offensive if I can't get a good hold of you. So reverse engineer and realize that if you can consistently deny him good grips he can't do much to you.

Always fight grips. Don't let him grab you. Especially the collar grip, break that immediately with both hands. Also break sleeve grips immediately after breaking the collar grip.

Combine that with the top game strategy stuff and you're in good standing. But purple belts will still molest you for a while.

 

[Estudante]

If you were Jon Fitch, you would have no problems being in someone's closed guard

 

[IamnotJonFitch]

Assuming you're starting on top and your opponent is pulling guard:

1. Fight for grips. Don't let him get strong grips on your sleeves or collar right off the bat and break your posture.

2. Keep one knee up at all times to avoid being pulling into closed guard

3. Try to get a pant or ankle grip and use it to put him on his back, then get a foot in between his legs and start working passes.

If he's not pulling guard, you pull guard. Don't knee wrestle, it's a waste of time. Also, if you're a white belt rolling with purple belts, make peace with being swept. It's going to happen, and there's no advice anyone online can give you that will stop it. Dealing all the various open guard variations is also a huge topic, so unless you have a more specific question this is about all I can tell you.

Cheers, man.

The knee up idea is one I've seen and should implement, I always forget and then I'm fucked.

I'm sorry if my thread is vague, I suppose I'm just frustrated. Haven't been picked apart like that in a while.

 

[jsick]

I heard Giva Santana say something recently that really resonated with me, and I think will be helpful here.

He said the moment when you get swept or caught is a wonderful learning opportunity, but if you get frustrated, you miss it. Let's say you get swept when next you roll. Take a moment to look at things. Where was your weight? Where are his grips? Where are your grips? Try to digest it all so you can start to solve the puzzle.

As far as when things begin, I suggest not letting them close their guard if they try to pull. Get that knee up and give them a hard time closing it. Work a specific pass intentionally. If it works, do it again. Get one pass razor sharp and the principles of that pass will translate into your overall game.

Good luck!

PS here's the video of Giva https://youtu.be/uD87ec7dFkk

 

[Calibur]

I have no idea what specific part of Jiu Jitsu we are talking about.

Guard passing? Guard sweeps? Grips? Subs from the top? The bottom?

 

[DrJitsu]

A) breaking a good guard while keeping a good base and B) not getting the worse of a scramble.

A) there are all kinds of guard breaks and guard passes. Which guard pass are you working on?

B) IDK. I think people would respond to this by advising to try and avoid the scramble in the first place. Control your opponent and don't let the match degenerate into a pure contest of athleticism. Again, there are numerous ways to control your opponent- including from inside their guard.

The beginning of a match is mostly grip fighting- as has already been mentioned. I would de-emphasize the start from the knees however, in case that is what is bothering you. There are techniques from there and they often use the same principles that are used from standing, but it's just kind of a non-position. Focus your beginning techniques from standing- also mostly establishing grips.

So that is all to say- for the beginning of the match stuff- maybe work on grip fighting and grip breaking. We have whole classes on this which can be pretty cool.

 

[Dayman1984]

Breaking and then passing a good guard while maintaining a good base is one of the most challenging things in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. That's kind of like asking "how do I throw a perfect spiral while leading a receiver so he runs past the cornerback and scores a touchdown?" I'm not shitting on you, just trying to make you feel better that as a new guy, this WILL be frustrating for you.

Now, follow the other guys' advice on how to remedy this, and train away!

 

[IamnotJonFitch]

A) there are all kinds of guard breaks and guard passes. Which guard pass are you working on?

B) IDK. I think people would respond to this by advising to try and avoid the scramble in the first place. Control your opponent and don't let the match degenerate into a pure contest of athleticism. Again, there are numerous ways to control your opponent- including from inside their guard.

The beginning of a match is mostly grip fighting- as has already been mentioned. I would de-emphasize the start from the knees however, in case that is what is bothering you. There are techniques from there and they often use the same principles that are used from standing, but it's just kind of a non-position. Focus your beginning techniques from standing- also mostly establishing grips.

So that is all to say- for the beginning of the match stuff- maybe work on grip fighting and grip breaking. We have whole classes on this which can be pretty cool.

Well, the guard pass that I've been working on is the very basic one where you grab their gi in the bottom and then form that L with your legs until it breaks, then pass.

I've been struggling to get those lanky guards broken with this, and usually when I hit that L kind of shape I get off balance, thus get swept.

Sometimes it works, though.

 

[Draiman]

OP, we have the same built, but I'm a bit lighter.

Double under guard pass (though not a fan of this, but whatever works)or Gerbil's guitar hero pass, works for me most of the time.

Jason Scully has a ton of passes in one of his vids, pick one that might work for you.

 

[Dayman1984]

Well, the guard pass that I've been working on is the very basic one where you grab their gi in the bottom and then form that L with your legs until it breaks, then pass.

I've been struggling to get those lanky guards broken with this, and usually when I hit that L kind of shape I get off balance, thus get swept.

Sometimes it works, though.

Try some standing guard breaks for those with lankier legs. Here's a good basic video of the classic sleeve and collar then stand guard break.

[YT]QwVpXtBWEX0[/YT]

 

[lechien]

Well, the guard pass that I've been working on is the very basic one where you grab their gi in the bottom and then form that L with your legs until it breaks, then pass.

I've been struggling to get those lanky guards broken with this, and usually when I hit that L kind of shape I get off balance, thus get swept.

Sometimes it works, though.

You need to learn how to break the closed guard standing.

Most of your problems lies on the fact that you want to break the closed guard on your knees.

 

[rmongler]

if not in closed guard, its the miragaia minute.

if he pulls you into closed guard, its tozi time.

if he doesn't like tozi time, and he opens guard to hip escape and push you away, it is the miragaia month again.

 

[JosephDredd]

If you're between his legs, always be in combat base. This isn't just a matter of keeping a knee up, it's keeping a knee up where it will inconvenience his motion.

In order for his guard to be effective he has to do one or more of the following: establish grips, break your posture, disrupt your base. He's always going to be trying to do those things, so if you know what he's going to try to you can stay on top of his actions.

 

[kjg1672]

Uchi summarized everything I wanted to say, so instead I would like to emphasize the point about grips.

Being on bottom in guard is all about grips, particularly in gi. I can't be offensive if I can't get a good hold of you. So reverse engineer and realize that if you can consistently deny him good grips he can't do much to you.

Always fight grips. Don't let him grab you. Especially the collar grip, break that immediately with both hands. Also break sleeve grips immediately after breaking the collar grip.

Combine that with the top game strategy stuff and you're in good standing. But purple belts will still molest you for a while.

This topic has been the bane of my BJJ existence for a little while now. For about a year I have been doing what you describe here, but I'm having a few problems. 1. When I break grips, they usually just re-grip. 2. I'm using up so much energy and focus breaking grips that I'm neglecting getting into my pass.

At a recent open mat I brought up the problem to 3 purple belts. They all agreed that I need to worry less about breaking grips and getting my own grips. For example, one purple belt said that when he gets a collar grip from sitting guard, he uses it mostly just to steer his opponent whichever way he's comfortable, not really for a sweep or sub or anything. If, for example, I want to do an x-pass, work on getting my grips for it and don't worry so much about the grip my opponent has on my collar.

So I'm going to try that now and see what happens. I plan on sticking with it for a while, because focusing on breaking my opponent's grips right away wasn't really getting me very far.