Lyoto Machida Footsweep Appreciation

[loyalyolayal]

I remember Maia's on Sonnen being bananas but for some reason I always thought he initiated with a kimura sacrifice throw off the cage. But looking at it now, you're correct. Looks like no gi sasae from double overhooks. Damn what a boss.

EDIT: tried to mark but it's in slo mo at 1:36

Too high to be sasae. Hiza guruma, imo.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Too high to be sasae. Hiza guruma, imo.

At 0:05 looks like hiza guruma to me but then at 1:36 I thought sasae because Maia clearly grabs under armpit with his right hand and appears to pull up and over. Also he seems to keep Sonnen in tight vs. "getting out of the way" like in hiza guruma. But I could be mixing up the two.

 

[rmongler]

the outside trip?

There are pretty much only two (well, three) basic ingredients to a foot sweep; you opponent moving, and a handle to turn him with. You just block his foot with your foot and turn him over the direction you're blocking, where he would want to move his foot to balance. Whether you have an underhook, inside tie, collar tie, or whatever, any can work as long as you have a solid handle to push him around with.

 

[loyalyolayal]

At 0:05 looks like hiza guruma to me but then at 1:36 I thought sasae because Maia clearly grabs under armpit with his right hand and appears to pull up and over. Also he seems to keep Sonnen in tight vs. "getting out of the way" like in hiza guruma. But I could be mixing up the two.

I actually had to google the technicalities as my interpretation is quite shallow(knee block = hg, foot block = stka).

https://judo.forumotion.com/t2238-sasae-tsurikomi-ashi-vs-hiza-guruma
Based on the discussion, Maia's was still a hiza guruma since they have to move more horizontally (wheel) than sasae tka which some define as more up and down motion which Muneta executed in the vid posted above.

 

[rmongler]

(For some reason theres some new forum shitcode that cuts off media elements, so heres the rest of the post.)

 

[ChickenBrother]

I actually had to google the technicalities as my interpretation is quite shallow(knee block = hg, foot block = stka).

https://judo.forumotion.com/t2238-sasae-tsurikomi-ashi-vs-hiza-guruma
Based on the discussion, Maia's was still a hiza guruma since they have to move more horizontally (wheel) than sasae tka which some define as more up and down motion which Muneta executed in the vid posted above.

I thought the commentary in the link actually classifies it as sasae, but I'm probably just being a wanker. It looks like sasae vs. hiza has been done before on this forum, with no clear consensus:

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/demian-maias-takedown-on-chael-sonnen.3563845/

Holt probably has the best answer with, "Its a lateral drop but he hits a sneaky footsweep with his right leg on the way down."

 

[QingTian]

IMO it is a sasae because of the lifting back arch action. Hiza guruma is more rotating over a point. Where your foot connects is not the key factor.

I don't think it's a lateral drop either because the throw was neither lateral nor using a drop action as the primary power.

 

[rmongler]

'Lateral drop' is a fairly broad term for pretty much any twisting motion throw from chest-to-chest where your momentum is going backwards, usually with some back arch involved (basically, it's not a suplex, and it's not a turning hip toss either).

 

[Bluesbreaker]

To me, y'all are focusing on the wrong bits. Hiza guruma is the "knee wheel" while sasae, for which I've seen a few translations, means propping/blocking the foot/ankle by lifting/pulling. Imo, the point of contact is much more important to the name. FYI, I actually consider the Muneta one a hiza guruma.

I'm 99% certain if we saw Maia do that to Sonnen on the IJF World Tour, Neil Adams would be calling it "sasae" on commentary.

Anyway that's my take as a judo player, on a topic that really doesn't matter. Have a top weekend guys.

 

[judoka loca]

IMO it's much harder in no gi to maintain the necessary upper body control to complete any foot sweep TD. I've lost track of how many times I've timed it properly only to have uke stumble slightly and recover, because I lost upper body control without gi grips to pull them upwards, forward or sideways to complete the throw. IME in no gi, you practically have to be chest to chest in over/under to hit de ashi harai, kosoto gari or sasae.

But I'd love for someone to school me and show me a better way in no gi. I love going for foot sweeps.

Sasae is best done in my opinion from an underhook and a collar tie. Pull down with the collar tie and lift with the underhook. I learned it this way in Muay Thai and had success with it in grappling.

The easiest foot sweep to hit by far is the overtie/shuck/2-on-1 foot sweep. Get them moving and lift, sometimes you can even sweep both feet out from under them if you do it properly.

As far as de ashi and kosoto gari go, I've been trying to figure those out in no-gi for a couple months now. I've been watching a lot of Jason Morris and Steve Mocco videos to try to break down how they hit them, but I'm still missing something. I bought Mocco's DVD, which was good in terms of content, and showed some really neat ways to turn foot sweeps into other attacks (worth the money there) but didn't help all that much with the foot sweep from the collar tie.

Hopefully something will just click sometime. I think I just need to try these things in sparring more


​

 

[ChickenBrother]

Sasae is best done in my opinion from an underhook and a collar tie. Pull down with the collar tie and lift with the underhook. I learned it this way in Muay Thai and had success with it in grappling.

The easiest foot sweep to hit by far is the overtie/shuck/2-on-1 foot sweep. Get them moving and lift, sometimes you can even sweep both feet out from under them if you do it properly.

As far as de ashi and kosoto gari go, I've been trying to figure those out in no-gi for a couple months now. I've been watching a lot of Jason Morris and Steve Mocco videos to try to break down how they hit them, but I'm still missing something. I bought Mocco's DVD, which was good in terms of content, and showed some really neat ways to turn foot sweeps into other attacks (worth the money there) but didn't help all that much with the foot sweep from the collar tie.

Hopefully something will just click sometime. I think I just need to try these things in sparring more


​

First of all, fuck me because I just looked them up and I'd forgotten that the basic foot sweep is technically a different waza depending on which direction uke is stepping. For years I've been explaining foot sweeps to BJJ guys and calling it de ashi harai whether uke is stepping forward, backward or sideways. I know I learned all these back in the 90's when I was a Judo guy but if I ever commit everything to memory again I need to get my act together and find someone to officially promote me so I can be the world's shittiest Shodan.

IIRC hiza guruma and sasae are technically more foot "blocks" than foot sweeps. The basic foot sweeps that I often go for are:

No gi de ashi barai (uke advancing forward)


Okuri ashi harai (uke moving sideways)


Harai tsurikomi ashi (uke moving backwards)


All are easier in a gi but the low hanging fruit is when uke is moving sideways or backwards - there's a pretty long window to attack the trailing foot because you basically have from the moment they lift the foot until they put it back down again. When they're advancing you really have to time it perfectly and need to sweep exactly as they are planting the foot. If they have proper footwork it's very hard to time IME. But right before the lockdown I started playing around with the no gi version from collar tie shown in the first vid above, and it is doable.

With the other two in no gi I pretty much have to be in tight over/under tie up, or collar tie with overhook + other guy practically standing up straight (which is rare). If they ever let me get a collar tie with underhook, rather than foot sweep I'll just straighten them up, lock my hands and go for no gi osoto.

 

[Kaffe]

Beautiful sweeps from Machida indeed. I love sasae to the underhook / lapel grip side. Low risk, high reward. There’s a Russian dude, Islam Makhachev, who is an absolute killer with it in the UFC now. He uses a cross grip version too, I believe.

 

[ChickenBrother]

There are pretty much only two (well, three) basic ingredients to a foot sweep; you opponent moving, and a handle to turn him with. You just block his foot with your foot and turn him over the direction you're blocking, where he would want to move his foot to balance. Whether you have an underhook, inside tie, collar tie, or whatever, any can work as long as you have a solid handle to push him around with.

That no gi de ashi harai in the first vid is Shonie Carter pimp backfist worthy.

 

[tekkenfan]

There are pretty much only two (well, three) basic ingredients to a foot sweep; you opponent moving, and a handle to turn him with. You just block his foot with your foot and turn him over the direction you're blocking, where he would want to move his foot to balance. Whether you have an underhook, inside tie, collar tie, or whatever, any can work as long as you have a solid handle to push him around with.

ahh yeah id like to learn it say first vid of the 2 hws usually i see guys doing it to other side nobody really trains to defend stuff like that its kinda hard to lol so using it as a quick off balance is great not having to commit to hard so isnt very dangerous to try

sadly its hard to find good vids on them no gi but i do have steve moccos new dvd on his foot sweeps

 

[tekkenfan]

islams

Beautiful sweeps from Machida indeed. I love sasae to the underhook / lapel grip side. Low risk, high reward. There’s a Russian dude, Islam Makhachev, who is an absolute killer with it in the UFC now. He uses a cross grip version too, I believe.

damn good but where did u see him doing it in the gi? us aid cross grip version? he won a fight by taking guy down right into mount with a sweep is aw which was beautiful is that way you were talking about?

 

[tekkenfan]

'Lateral drop' is a fairly broad term for pretty much any twisting motion throw from chest-to-chest where your momentum is going backwards, usually with some back arch involved (basically, it's not a suplex, and it's not a turning hip toss either).

but in wrestlings its basically always taught the same right? i know judo guys have their trips ect butin wrestling iv basically seen it taught the same with tiny variations but practically the same move or is that just from my experience?

 

[rmongler]

but in wrestlings its basically always taught the same right? i know judo guys have their trips ect butin wrestling iv basically seen it taught the same with tiny variations but practically the same move or is that just from my experience?

Most of the time you will see guys teach it as a throw from over/under.

When guys are pulling things off in competition, well, adapt and overcome.

 

[tekkenfan]

Most of the time you will see guys teach it as a throw from over/under.

When guys are pulling things off in competition, well, adapt and overcome.

i notice certain tecs are done different in live vs drilling like the bodylock in bjj/mma getting double unders low on the hips squeezing and driving head into them like this



most guys when they really hit it they usually turn in a circle and guy desnt go down way its taught as u said i feel its a go by feel technique