Mayweather Jr. vs. Alvarez

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Seano said:
I'd say Hearns is at a similar point in his career that Canelo is at now. I'm sorry, some of you just can't seem to understand that Hearns wasn't the guy who KO'd Duran when he fought Leonard. Leonard was a HUGE step up in competition for Hearns.

Rays 5 best wins I'm guessing- Hearns, Duran, Hagler, Benitez and... who is 5? LaLonde? Kalule?

Rays record is not as star studded as people like to think it is. The guy only had 40 pro fights.

Floyds 5 best wins? Marquez, Corrales, Hatton, Cotto and the last is a pick em. Baldomir? Undisputed welterweight champ? Hernandez? Solid fighter who had beaten Azumah Nelson and only lost to Oscar? Or Oscar at 154?

Marvin Hagler had some pretty silly losses on his record. Lost to Monroe, Watts and was taken to a draw by Antuofermo and Seales. Break down for me why beating Hagler when Ray beat him, is more impressive than beating Cotto when Floyd beat him. Cotto has some losses but to Pac and Margarito, the very best at 147 pounds.

Hatton was ranked somewhere around # 6 p4p , was undefeated and was undisputed at 140 and a titlist at 147. Floyd knocked him out. Who did Ray beat that could make that claim? Not Aaron Pryor.

Marquez has beaten some of the best guys out there and is a sure fire HOF fighter. He beat Barerra, Katsidis, Casamayor, Juan Diaz etc etc etc.Floyd shut the guy out and made him look ridiculous. Why is that not on the level of beating Duran? For that matter, why isn't as impressive as LOSING to Duran?

Corrales was undefeated a titlist and had just knocked out Manfredy, Juuko and Roberto Garcia. Give me a reason how thats less impressive than knocking out Pepino Cuevas.

Lets stop hearing "Leonards resume is better because it is." Give me some reasons. Break it down.
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That's a complete null point, as whether Hearns was at the same point as Canelo or not:

1. Floyd hasn't beaten Canelo yet

2. We know what Hearns went on to do, we don't need to guess. He got the Leonard fight because he was destroying everyone. After the Leonard fight he went on to beat Benitez and Duran.

We don't know how good Canelo is, you rank him based on what he has achieved and the challenge he poses. The fact Hearns went on to be considered one of the best welterweights of all time enhances Leonard's victory, especially considering he beat him in his prime when he was unbeaten and in the form of his life. If Canelo goes on to do the same then he will be ranked accordingly, but not until he does do the same.

I'll ask the question again, who has Floyd beat that comes close to a KO victory over a prime, undefeated Hearns?

Hatton isn't even an ATG and Floyd didn't beat him in his best weight division, what did Hatton do after Floyd, what did he do before Floyd, what signature wins did he have apart from a past it Kostya? Victories over Hearns, Benitez, Hagler etc are all a lot more impressive

Now you're seriously trying to tell me a victory over 154lbs Miguel Cotto, a fighter many considered to be past it is a better victory than any version of Marvin Hagler?Hagler was coming off victories over Duran, Roldan, Hamsho, Hearns and Mugabi. Who was Cotto coming off? Hagler was the king of the division and is considered one of the top five middleweights of all time. Beating the middleweight king after such a long layoff is a fantastic achievement. A million times better than a win over Miguel Cotto.

Marquez is Floyd's best win, and even it wasn't Marquez at anywhere near his best. Bringing up the fact Marquez beat Pac at the same weight is irrelevant and you know it. Marquez's conditioning was terrible in this fight, he prepared a completely different way and that was clearly visible. That's Floyd's best win and victories over Hearns and Hagler both rank above it. It's about on par with a Duran victory, which isn't Sugar's best win.

You need to stop playing this titlist bullshit. Corralles and had really accomplished anything before the Floyd fight. It was considered such a big win because of the size difference and the dominant performance. After that fight he went on to get knocked out by Casamayor.

There's plenty of reasons all shown above. The extent of your argument is rating Victories like Miguel Cotto and Ricky Hatton over victories like Hearns, Hagler and Benitez. I'm not going to argue over stuff like that, we'll just make a thread and see who rates that Cotto victory over the Hagler victory.
 
Mad King said:
no, i know the rules. no g string or nudity. You can not show a .com if it has nudity and that one doesnt. Im good on the post. I post in the pic section all the time.
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I've been carded for less..just saying.. but good luck
 
The President said:
You need to stop playing this titlist bullshit. Corralles and had really accomplished anything before the Floyd fight.
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Even if we "ignore the titlist bullshit" then Corralles can point to dominating wins over Manfredy, Juuko, Gainer, Garcia and St Clair. Considering we're ignoring the "titlist bullshit" and comparing beating him to Pipino Cuevas, that holds up pretty well. Now, I think only looking at Cuevas on Hearn's ledger at the time is a little limited; Eddie Gazo was a solid boxer who had a decent title run not that long before Hearns destroyed him, Saensak Muangsurin was a dangerous (albeit limited) boxer with two get title runs to his name and Bruce Curry went on to have a decent championship run... but all three are somewhat close to "titlist bullshit"...

The President said:
It was considered such a big win because of the size difference and the dominant performance.
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No, it was considered a big win because Corrales was destroying everyone he faced and in his absolute prime... much like Hearns was Leonard faced him. If it was just down to size difference and a dominating performance then people would talk about Mayweather's win over Tony Pep in the same manner.

The President said:
After that fight he went on to get knocked out by Casamayor.
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Em... he was stopped yes, but he was stopped due to cuts inside his mouth when unhurt and clearly able to continue. Corralles had won the round immediately prior to the stoppage, including hurting Casamayor late on. And he went on to beat Casamyor, beat the then undefeated Freitas and Castillo.

While I disagree with Seano that Mayweather currently has a better record than Leonard, you're severely underplaying how good Mayweather's record is and how good his opponents were in comparison.
 
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I'm sure much market research was carried out, and much data analysed, before the folk making PPV buy rate predictions posted theirs.

Personally I have no idea how many buy rates this will secure, especially given the price, but I'm not privy to your intel.
 
You need to stop playing this titlist bullshit. Corralles and had really accomplished anything before the Floyd fight. It was considered such a big win because of the size difference and the dominant performance. After that fight he went on to get knocked out by Casamayor.
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And Thomas Hearns never lost another fight by KO in his career after Ray Leonard, eh?

I'm not stopping with the titlist bullshit as thats basically the only argument for hearns as well.
 
consortium11 said:
Even if we "ignore the titlist bullshit" then Corralles can point to dominating wins over Manfredy, Juuko, Gainer, Garcia and St Clair. Considering we're ignoring the "titlist bullshit" and comparing beating him to Pipino Cuevas, that holds up pretty well. Now, I think only looking at Cuevas on Hearn's ledger at the time is a little limited; Eddie Gazo was a solid boxer who had a decent title run not that long before Hearns destroyed him, Saensak Muangsurin was a dangerous (albeit limited) boxer with two get title runs to his name and Bruce Curry went on to have a decent championship run... but all three are somewhat close to "titlist bullshit"...



No, it was considered a big win because Corrales was destroying everyone he faced and in his absolute prime... much like Hearns was Leonard faced him. If it was just down to size difference and a dominating performance then people would talk about Mayweather's win over Tony Pep in the same manner.



Em... he was stopped yes, but he was stopped due to cuts inside his mouth when unhurt and clearly able to continue. Corralles had won the round immediately prior to the stoppage, including hurting Casamayor late on. And he went on to beat Casamyor, beat the then undefeated Freitas and Castillo.

While I disagree with Seano that Mayweather currently has a better record than Leonard, you're severely underplaying how good Mayweather's record is and how good his opponents were in comparison.
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Corralles didn't go on to do much at all after the loss to Mayweather though, Hearns did. You could say Corralles and Hearns were like for like in the respective fights, but it was after their first losses that Hearns went on to prove he was a great fighter. Corralles went on to prove he was a very good fighter, but as great as the guys were talking about here? I'm not so sure. I do still think that the win was pumped up by the fact that Corralles was such a big puncher and an intimidating force (Which isn't a bad thing).

Corralles also got KO'd by Castillo in the rematch. I don't think I'm underplaying Floyd's career at all, I'm one of his biggest supporters, I just don't class a win over Corralles as a better win that Hearns, Hagler, Duran or Benitez.
 
Seano said:
And Thomas Hearns never lost another fight by KO in his career after Ray Leonard, eh?

I'm not stopping with the titlist bullshit as thats basically the only argument for hearns as well.
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Yeah he did, firstly by Hagler, one of the best middleweights of all time.

Ermm no it's not. Hearns has wins over guys like Duran, Gazo, Roldan and two very close fights with Sugar Ray Leonard. Guys like Cotto and Hatton fell way short when they stepped up to the elite level. The guys we are talking about here all hung with each other.
 
The President said:
Corralles didn't go on to do much at all after the loss to Mayweather though, Hearns did. .
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Its been pointed out to you multiple times that that isn't what we're talking about and you know it.

We're talking about who Corrales was when Floyd fought him and who Hearns was when Leonard fought him, not who they became over the rest of their careers.

What happened when Leonard fought a more experienced Hearns in the rematch? Leonard got dropped twice and got a gift draw.
 
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