Murka. China. IT'S ON. [US Dials Up On Another $200 Billion Plus Another Possible $200B For $450B]

[MicroBrew]

100% behind Trump admin on this. China have stolen billions in intellectual property , and have engaged in dumping to destroy aspects of our industry. This is the Trump I was supportive of back in 2016.

 

[V-2]

Any leverage will be gone in the next 5-10 years, China is investing massively on getting their own microprocessors on the matter.

Our market is our leverage. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Hell, 15 years from now, if we haven't seen a WWIII from technology throwing the world order on it's head, I will be shocked.

That's much easier said than done and they've been trying for decades. Semiconductors are very arguably the most complex form of technology and devices that have ever been developed. They're the brains of all modern electronics and it's America's single most important industry for its economy, national security and innovation (along with aerospace). As said, it holds 51% of the global market share followed by South Korea (17%), Japan (12%), European Union (8%) and Taiwan (7%).

 

[Rod1]

That's much easier said than done and they've been trying for decades. Semiconductors are very arguably the most complex form of technology and devices that have ever been developed. They're the brains of all modern electronics and it's America's single most important industry for its economy, national security and innovation (along with aerospace). As said, it holds 51% of the global market share followed by South Korea (17%), Japan (12%), European Union (8%) and Taiwan (7%).

They tried back then when they were not a really developed nation, now they are trying as a developed one. If SK and Japan could, China can too.

On the upside it may mean cheaper semiconductor prices for the world, which would be a good thing for humanity on the downside China wont be able to be effectively blocked once they do.

 

[V-2]

100% behind Trump admin on this. China have stolen billions in intellectual property , and have engaged in dumping to destroy aspects of our industry. This is the Trump I was supportive of back in 2016.

The domestic media outlets here really need to save the faux aghast act as if this hasn't been going on for years and the Trump Administration's claims are unfounded. I will prove that utterly false at this very instant. Was Trump occupying the White House in 2011? Or 2016?

2011 USITC Report:

https://www.usitc.gov/publications/332/pub4226.pdf

2016 USTR Report:

https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/2016-China-Report-to-Congress.pdf

And sure, the 2017 USTR Report:

https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/301/2017 Special 301 Report FINAL.PDF

 

[IGIT]

A lot of people are unaware of China's industrial espionage on a grand scale. They just think of faux Apple shops and the intellectual property infringements of knock-offs.

hi Edgy Brah,

i think most who post here on this forum are aware of it...but since there isn't much interest in IP protections, along with patent and copyright infringement here in the War Room - no one cares too much about it.

- IGIT

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

I entirely support this measure, i just dont understand why open a trade warfront with virtually all your main trade partners before doing this.

Trump correctly thinks that murkans won't mind paying an extra 200$ a year if he's "whuppin Canada's butt". They're too dumb to realize the higher prices they'll pay because of the tariffs.

 

[IGIT]

I think we have leverage to bend China to our will, but we should he honest about the cost. China is not without recourse.

Playing hardball with China will leave our SE Asian allies with their asses hanging in the wind.

heya there Viva,

i think, on paper, the US has the leverage in general (with just about everyone except Canada, where we have a trade surplus), for now, with just about all our trading partners.

the thing is, think about this; how willing are US corporations (along with the citizenry) going to be, when they're faced with rough waters ahead?

who is better suited to endure economic hardship, the Americans or the Chinese?

which country has the right government to tamp down on unrest, should that hardship come 'a calling?

- IGIT

 

[VivaRevolution]

heya there Viva,

i think, on paper, the US has the leverage in general (with just about everyone except Canada, where we have a trade surplus), for now, with just about all our trading partners.

the thing is, think about this; how willing are US corporations (along with the citizenry) absorb the rocky waters ahead?

who is better suited to endure economic hardship, the Americans or the Chinese?

which country has the right government to tamp down on unrest, should that hardship come 'a calling?

- IGIT

That depends on how good the PR team is these days. A external enemy is quite the amazing unifier, as the North Koreans can attest to.

 

[Rod1]

hi Edgy Brah,

i think most who post here on this forum are aware of it...but since there isn't much interest in IP protections, along with patent and copyright infringement here in the War Room - no one cares too much about it.

- IGIT

It is when said IP protections have security and military implications.

 

[V-2]

They tried back then when they were not a really developed nation, now they are trying as a developed one. If SK and Japan could, China can too.

On the upside it may mean cheaper semiconductor prices for the world, which would be a good thing for humanity on the downside China wont be able to be effectively blocked once they do.

Bloomberg: Why Can't China Make Semiconductors?

Chinese billionaire Jack Ma thinks it's time. Trump blocked his bid to buy Moneygram lolz, an entirely unrelated entity. Dude even blocked the Lattice Semiconductor acquisition (brilliant name), which is no more than a bit player firm based in Oregon. Intel's got three front-end fabrication plants here but even the local tech startups with their HQ in Phoenix-Metro such as Microchip and ON Semiconductor are bigger than Lattice.

 

[IGIT]

Any leverage will be gone in the next 5-10 years, China is investing massively on getting their own microprocessors on the matter.

aye Rod1,

this is what bums me out.

i agree that US leverage (which is on the downward slide) will evaporate in the coming decades.

still...in terms of dealing with China, its a "use it 'cos you're going to lose it" sorta scenario.

- IGIT

 

[VivaRevolution]

Trump ignites trade war with China, triggering swift retaliation

Tariffs on US$34 billion of US goods including agricultural products, autos and aquatic goods will take effect from Jul 6, Xinhua reported. (AFP/STR)
16 Jun 2018 02:39AM

WASHINGTON: US President Donald Trump on Friday (Jun 15) ignited his trade war with China, slapping tariffs on tens of billions in Chinese imports and sparking immediate retaliation from Beijing.

The moves brought the world's two largest economies to the verge of an all-out confrontation long feared by markets and industry.


The announcement also caps months of sometimes fraught shuttle diplomacy in which Chinese offers to purchase more American goods failed to assuage Trump's grievances over the soaring trade imbalance and China's aggressive industrial development policies.

And as Trump warned of "additional tariffs" should Beijing hit back with tit-for-tat duties on American goods, China nevertheless unveiled 25 per cent duties on US$50 billion in US imports.

"The United States can no longer tolerate losing our technology and intellectual property through unfair economic practices," Trump said.

"These tariffs are essential to preventing further unfair transfers of American technology and intellectual property to China, which will protect American jobs."


Read more at https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...h-china-triggering-swift-retaliation-10437632

 

[IGIT]

It is when said IP protections have security and military implications.

hiya Rod1,

if that's the case, then that's pretty depressing to me.

the Chinese have fleeced US corporations for years. from telecom, to wind turbines, to theft from US agribusiness...its endless.

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

That depends on how good the PR team is these days. A external enemy is quite the amazing unifier, as the North Koreans can attest to.

hi again Viva,

we'll see.

public relations and nationalism aside, i think the US citizenry is ill equipped, emotionally, to deal with immediate hits to their bottom line. i think that is doubly true for every entity on the S&P 500.

and...

...if i had to choose between the ability of the Chinese government and the US government's ability to quell dissent and ruthlessly promote a narrative...

...i'm going with Xi Jinping and the Communist party.

- IGIT

 

[kahiljabroni]

It’s funny people criticizing trump on the basis that he might not be tough enough on China...when he is the only president to make any attempt whatsoever to stop China from eclipsing us in every facet.

If it wasn’t for trump we wouldn’t even be discussing it...I’d say trump is just the man to take on China

 

[VivaRevolution]

hi again Viva,

we'll see.

public relations and nationalism aside, i think the US citizenry is ill equipped, emotionally, to deal with immediate hits to their bottom line. i think that is doubly true for every entity on the S&P 500.

and...

...if i had to choose between the ability of the Chinese government and the US government's ability to quell dissent and ruthlessly promote a narrative...

...i'm going with Xi Jinping and the Communist party.

- IGIT

I would agree with the idea China can violently quell dissent better.

I would however argue that we are far superior at convincing people their is no need for dissent, or to redirect that anger at an external enemy.

"Are you pissed off what China has done to you? Fight back, help the war effort, buy war bonds."

 

[IGIT]

Trump correctly thinks that murkans won't mind paying an extra 200$ a year if he's "whuppin Canada's butt". They're too dumb to realize the higher prices they'll pay because of the tariffs.

hiya Sohei my friend,

we'll see if he's correct.

i don't have the same faith in the mettle of US citizens in this matter. in a war of economic attrition between China and the US, i'm worried that we'll cry "uncle" first.

this may be a humiliating experience for my country.

- IGIT

 

[MardyBum]

It’s funny people criticizing trump on the basis that he might not be tough enough on China...when he is the only president to make any attempt whatsoever to stop China from eclipsing us in every facet.

If it wasn’t for trump we wouldn’t even be discussing it...I’d say trump is just the man to take on China

Most people seem to be cheering it on, if he has the balls to keep it up (or, lets be honest, unless a way pops up for his family to make money in a deal where he eases up). Just seems the lead up to it, pissing off Europe, Mexico, and Canada, wasn't the smartest thing to do.

 

[IGIT]

I would agree with the idea China can violently quell dissent better.

I would however argue that we are far superior at convincing people their is no need for dissent, or to redirect that anger at an external enemy.

"Are you pissed off what China has done to you? Fight back, help the war effort, buy war bonds."

ahoy VivaRevolution,

those who are faithful to Mr. Trump will buy this storyline, maybe.

then again, maybe not.

if targeted countermeasures from the Chinese cause Iowa farmers to take a hit, do you still think those Iowans will just suck it up, for God and Country?

- IGIT

 

[Rod1]

It’s funny people criticizing trump on the basis that he might not be tough enough on China...when he is the only president to make any attempt whatsoever to stop China from eclipsing us in every facet.

If it wasn’t for trump we wouldn’t even be discussing it...I’d say trump is just the man to take on China

The US has blocked critical tech from China before, and Obama did addressed dumping.

Still nobody wanted a trade war with China while the US was recovering, and there was still hope that China would open up. Said hopes died out with Xi Jinping supreme leader move.