Anyone have any input on these schools? I'm trying to decide between the four. I would consider myself more of a recreational practitioner, not looking to be a fighter. I don't want anything that focuses too much on cardio/conditioning (I don't want to spend half the class doing push ups and sit ups) Any suggestions?
NYC Muay Thai: Coban, WAT, Five Points, Sitan?
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This is my pov but it might be outdated since I haven't trained anything since 09. I think cardio wise all the schools are the same except for 5 points. They don't start with the jumprope or running.
This is what I think and its only my opinion and not meant to offend.
The wat has a style where its a bit more flashy and its not for everyone. I think they are one of the better clinch schools and their kicks aren't shabby. They aren't known for their punching. Real nice facilities and you get a shower. Also many different type of classes. It's a more white collar crowd. They produce some fighters but I think the ones that do well are suited to the wat's style of fighting.
Sitan gym has a more simpler style. They don't practice non of those spinning elbows or kicks. They are very well rounded but I think their clinch might be their weakest area. The gym is small so there isn't as many classes as other facilities but I think they are fairly decent in producing fighters. Its a more blue collar crowd, they don't have a shower. I don't think they have a drop in rate but when I checked it out it was really cheap like 100 bucks a month or something. I am sure it has gone up in 7 years.
5 points is like the mega gym. It is kinda expensive though. I believe they offer grappling as well as weights+kettlebells. Facilities are really nice and they have a ring and lots of bags. I think its a white collar crowd too. When you are training, there is a lot of space and you never bump into anyone unlike in sitan. I only visited a few times since I lived in California and wanted to drop by to train when I visited my parents in NYC. I only took few classes there, I was paying the drop in rate. I got weirded out when one of the instructors were trying to make me buy a school uniform. Maybe it's my fault, I am just used to wearing shorts and a random tshirt for regular boxing gyms but I thought I was exempt from buying uniform being a visitor.
I can't rate Coban's gym. He's a nice guy but I never trained with him. I have a few friends that trained with him but from what I hear, he might not be the best instructor.
This is what I think and its only my opinion and not meant to offend.
The wat has a style where its a bit more flashy and its not for everyone. I think they are one of the better clinch schools and their kicks aren't shabby. They aren't known for their punching. Real nice facilities and you get a shower. Also many different type of classes. It's a more white collar crowd. They produce some fighters but I think the ones that do well are suited to the wat's style of fighting.
Sitan gym has a more simpler style. They don't practice non of those spinning elbows or kicks. They are very well rounded but I think their clinch might be their weakest area. The gym is small so there isn't as many classes as other facilities but I think they are fairly decent in producing fighters. Its a more blue collar crowd, they don't have a shower. I don't think they have a drop in rate but when I checked it out it was really cheap like 100 bucks a month or something. I am sure it has gone up in 7 years.
5 points is like the mega gym. It is kinda expensive though. I believe they offer grappling as well as weights+kettlebells. Facilities are really nice and they have a ring and lots of bags. I think its a white collar crowd too. When you are training, there is a lot of space and you never bump into anyone unlike in sitan. I only visited a few times since I lived in California and wanted to drop by to train when I visited my parents in NYC. I only took few classes there, I was paying the drop in rate. I got weirded out when one of the instructors were trying to make me buy a school uniform. Maybe it's my fault, I am just used to wearing shorts and a random tshirt for regular boxing gyms but I thought I was exempt from buying uniform being a visitor.
I can't rate Coban's gym. He's a nice guy but I never trained with him. I have a few friends that trained with him but from what I hear, he might not be the best instructor.
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Pretty much all of it is true except some parts need an update or clarification.
OP I don't think there's really a gym that doesn't make you run, jump rope or do calisthenics.
I've trained at the WAT a year ago and now I'm at 5 points (nothing against the wat, I just wanted judo and grappling and kali)
The wat is kind of flashy but they do make use of the techniques. Their hands are also NOT their weakest area in fact they have a all boxing class on tues and thurs or fri. They have a beautiful gym with a full size ring and their showers are awesome. All I all this was a really awesome gym. What they lack however is the equipment like belly pads and low kick pads but that was all they were missing. They are cardio intense and the drill the techniques into you while you are tired for maximum muscle memory stimulation. That's what made the wat so effective.
Five academy however had all the equipment and a full fledge gym and a cornucopia of equipment!! It was amazing! However they don't do the preworkout warmup so you are not aaas gassed as other gyms. Honestly I found that although they were great at teaching, offered very good critiques and a lot of attention, they were not as effective as the wat. Although it was pretty close. (See edit)
I'd say in MT only, the Wat would be 9.5/10, Five Points would be a 9/10. (Edit: Five points 9.5 maybe even 10/10)
I haven't trained in sitan or cobans
Edit: I grew to love FPA's training. I was thinking of going back before because of the emphasis on pad work but I realize now that I am getting better, pad work is essential. My new perspective is that training wise, FPA is just as good as the WAT, if not a little better due to the Variations in workouts. Although you still need to show up early to do your own rope work, but that just means FPA gives you more technical rounds.
They do however offer a bunch of kettle bell, yoga, fighters fitness, etc classes and have a bunch of sparring a week. They have 5 sparring classes, 3 advanced, 2 intermediate and beginner sparring on the other side. The Wat only had 2. The schedule of FPA is also very very stacked unlike many other MT gyms. In fact I will say with 99% certainty that Five points has the best AND stacked schedule in the city.
All in all, WAT focuses on pad drills to drill the techniques into your muscles while five points really focus on any sort of attack and pad holder throws back and you look For counter.
The reason why I didn't see FPA to be equal or superior at first is because I didn't like the free range of attacks at my disposal as opposed to training a specific combo at the WAT. I was still not very experienced so I didn't know how to attack and enjoyed pre determined combos. But after more training, and knowing the structure of each gym, I will gladly say that given the choice, I will choose Five Points Academy all over again.
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texastwisties
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Can only speak on sitan which is cardio intense and wont let you spar unless you are in the advanced class.
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For your purposes I don't think you can't go wrong with any of them. Although, I can't imagine training someplace without showers...
The Wat is great, but doesn't have weights or much other equipment and only offers MT and western boxing. So, if you think you might want to try something besides that, consider the others. I visited 5 points, their facilities seemed nice. Didn't visit any others in person. If you're not looking to compete, I would visit them, most will let you do one class for free. Then pick based on schedule and location which probably make the most difference to non-compeditors.
I think your main obstacle is that there aren't many people looking for what you want. You broadly either have people training to fight or people looking for something better/more real than the cardio-kickboxing classes at their local gym. All of them need/are looking for conditioning.
If money is not an issue, you could do private lessons at any of those schools; basically paying to be only instructed technique.
The Wat is great, but doesn't have weights or much other equipment and only offers MT and western boxing. So, if you think you might want to try something besides that, consider the others. I visited 5 points, their facilities seemed nice. Didn't visit any others in person. If you're not looking to compete, I would visit them, most will let you do one class for free. Then pick based on schedule and location which probably make the most difference to non-compeditors.
I think your main obstacle is that there aren't many people looking for what you want. You broadly either have people training to fight or people looking for something better/more real than the cardio-kickboxing classes at their local gym. All of them need/are looking for conditioning.
If money is not an issue, you could do private lessons at any of those schools; basically paying to be only instructed technique.
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That's actually really expensive, like 100 per private session if you're going to these schools. What else I can suggest is look at other things.
Five points has an amazing schedule (I calculated the # of hours per week any gym has for Muay Thai and Five points came out on top by far with a whopping 36 hours of Muay Thai! The Wat had 22 and Church street had less than 15. I haven't done Sitan)
Quite honestly, the girls at The Wat are gorgeous.
I have heard Coban doesn't really speak english well but well enough to get his point through and he is a damn good instructor.
What really kept me away from Sitan is the fact that it was far and it has NO showers although by everyone's ratings the Big 3 of best teaching seems to be(What I see on the forums, not my own opinion):
#1 Sitan
#2 The Wat
#3 Five Points academy
With Evolution Muay Thai being an honorable mention.
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I would say Sitan is more suited for everyone rather than a more athletic person. The techniques at the Wat is drilled extensively but they require a good sense of balance and dexterity.( I remember watching some joe stevenson fight and him throwing a superman punch and completely fail. thats what i mean by you need a certain type of athleticism or physique for the wat) I trained at both spots, they are both good but their techniques are different.
For example, when you get taught to throw a knee at the wat. I believe they want you to lean back and be on the ball on your foot then retract back to fighting stance.
At sitan, they want you to knee but not lean and move forward.
Lastly the wat has a bunch of stretching classes and stuff. Perhaps if you weren't flexible, you can get there. Their intermediate classes aren't really intermediate, its like sorta beginner with more cardio but their advance classes are really good. If memory serves me correctly sitan only has beginner and advanced classes.
For example, when you get taught to throw a knee at the wat. I believe they want you to lean back and be on the ball on your foot then retract back to fighting stance.
At sitan, they want you to knee but not lean and move forward.
Lastly the wat has a bunch of stretching classes and stuff. Perhaps if you weren't flexible, you can get there. Their intermediate classes aren't really intermediate, its like sorta beginner with more cardio but their advance classes are really good. If memory serves me correctly sitan only has beginner and advanced classes.
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Five points is 204 a month plus 150 signup fee for a 3 month commitment, however after the 3 month contract you can continue it for the same monthly payment instead of going up to 250. I can't be quite sure if there is a enforcement fee but if you go in, they flat out give you their rates without trying to get you to sign up.
There's tax also so I paid at five points:
365 for first month from 150 + 204 + tax
Other months I pay 208.
At The Wat I paid 173.33 a month.
There is a full price and there is also an enforcement discount and a student discount. It was originally supposed to be 186 a month I think (I don't really remember the price that I did not pay) then they gave me a student discount which lowered it to 165 a month and then there is the 100 sign up fee and I told them I couldn't come up with 300 something dollars at once so they distributed the 100 into the twelve months. It came out to be like 8 something.
They were very lenient with the way they handled your money while Five Points was more strict.
highesthand- thank you!
in regards to 5 points: this past summer a lady quoted me a law enforcement discount of 178 per month for 5 points. then today when I called they gave me the exact same prices you said. The person I spoke with this time sounded like he was rushing me off the phone. Ill try again later.
in regards to 5 points: this past summer a lady quoted me a law enforcement discount of 178 per month for 5 points. then today when I called they gave me the exact same prices you said. The person I spoke with this time sounded like he was rushing me off the phone. Ill try again later.
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No problem, and you might have caught them on a bad day or at a bad time because FPA abolished their scanning system so when you come I'm you have to tell the clerk your name and hell type it in. It gives them more work to do so you might have called them during a busy time? They're really much nicer in person and I often spend some time chit chatting them.
FPA also had a reference reward, so if you get someone to join and they put their referred person as you, you get 10% off your current monthly bill as long as that person is still active.
Anyway if you guys want more info don't hesitate to ask.
strontiumdog
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I've trained at 5 Pt.s, Cobans, and now Kings Thai Boxing. For me, obviously, Kings is best because I already had a foundation of Muay Thai when I came to Kings. I was only looking to improve technique and eventually fight, both of which I managed to do. Coach Aaron Fisher has been the most technical instructor that I've had in my experience.
5 Pts. was my first exposure to Muay Thai and I loved it and learned a great deal of fundamentals. They have an excellent facility with tons of machines. It reminds of those big places like Crunch and Equinox. I didm not like the way they have a ranking system that you would have to test for and eventually make your way into sparring classes.
Coban's was great because Coban is there. When I was there he was teaching all the classes so you had exposure to him. It was inspiring to be trained by a legend in the sport. That said, his style was more Old school Asian teaching style in the sense that, the students would just follow the examples and hope they were doing them correctly and for the right reasons. Not much detailed explanations on techniques, ring strategy, etc. I improved my cardio but not technique much. There's was little clinching instruction at the time. Clinching consisted of getting with your partner and figuring it out for yourself.
Kings Thai Boxing is great because of the details and feedback that you get from Coach Aaron. He never 'phones it in' and is on you about technique, nagging you (in a good way!). There's a lot of Q&A time so that you know how to do a technique and WHY you do it a certain way. For me, it's easier to learn that way, when I can see the reason and logic behind it. Then the rest is up to you to go ahead and test those ideas in sparring and fights.
In the end, not sure about how things are currently at Coban's or 5 Pts. so it's best to go check out the gyms and see for yourself.
5 Pts. was my first exposure to Muay Thai and I loved it and learned a great deal of fundamentals. They have an excellent facility with tons of machines. It reminds of those big places like Crunch and Equinox. I didm not like the way they have a ranking system that you would have to test for and eventually make your way into sparring classes.
Coban's was great because Coban is there. When I was there he was teaching all the classes so you had exposure to him. It was inspiring to be trained by a legend in the sport. That said, his style was more Old school Asian teaching style in the sense that, the students would just follow the examples and hope they were doing them correctly and for the right reasons. Not much detailed explanations on techniques, ring strategy, etc. I improved my cardio but not technique much. There's was little clinching instruction at the time. Clinching consisted of getting with your partner and figuring it out for yourself.
Kings Thai Boxing is great because of the details and feedback that you get from Coach Aaron. He never 'phones it in' and is on you about technique, nagging you (in a good way!). There's a lot of Q&A time so that you know how to do a technique and WHY you do it a certain way. For me, it's easier to learn that way, when I can see the reason and logic behind it. Then the rest is up to you to go ahead and test those ideas in sparring and fights.
In the end, not sure about how things are currently at Coban's or 5 Pts. so it's best to go check out the gyms and see for yourself.
just a follow up- I went to SITAN'S yesterday for the first time (a beginners class).
I hadnt done any cardio since summer and almost passed out lol. Anyway I had a good time and could tell the people there take their training seriously. Needless to say- I signed up for three months. If your law Enforcement- he'll give you a good discount on any of the options you choose, just be sure to have your badge/shield.
I hadnt done any cardio since summer and almost passed out lol. Anyway I had a good time and could tell the people there take their training seriously. Needless to say- I signed up for three months. If your law Enforcement- he'll give you a good discount on any of the options you choose, just be sure to have your badge/shield.
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Yeah from what I can tell, Five Points is the only place that doesn't put an emphasis on cardio in their classes. Other places make you do a butt load
Great that you're getting into it. Good luck on training.
highesthand- due to schedule constraints- I may be making the switch to 5points academy. I was curious to know how would you rate their grappling program? Also on what days does Teimoc teach judo (I never see his name listed).
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Teimoc actually does not teach the judo program anymore but he does stop by to give seminars. Those you have to pay for and is only occassional. However I can tell you that I see them flipping people and it looks pretty cool. I don't have a gi yet so I couldn't try it out.
For the BJJ class I have only been to the no gi class because I don't have a gi lol. However I can say that I like it a lot. Frank Marshall is actually a purple belt but I think he deserves brown or black. He actually trains people for pan ams and naga and they do really well. I think he taps browns evenly.
All in all I am mostly there for Muay Thai and Steve Milles is an awesome guy. Stop by. If you want more info, just ask.
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