Official Women's Division Discussion #27
- Thread starter PurpleStorm
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https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2022/09/ufc-news-aspen-ladd-released-latest-weight-miss
What are we thinking, PFL or Bellator?
Also, do you think the ufc at least offered her a fight at 145? It’s not like they haven’t been making /any/ fights at featherweight. I guess it’s just because she’s missed so much that they don’t want anything to do with her, but they have been letting Chiasson fight at 45. I don’t see why they’d offer Macy fights at 45 but not her,
What are we thinking, PFL or Bellator?
Also, do you think the ufc at least offered her a fight at 145? It’s not like they haven’t been making /any/ fights at featherweight. I guess it’s just because she’s missed so much that they don’t want anything to do with her, but they have been letting Chiasson fight at 45. I don’t see why they’d offer Macy fights at 45 but not her,
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My theory is Ladd requested 135 fights after getting out muscled by Dumont. Then she followed that up with another bad weight miss.
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Invicta weigh in results
Atomweight Title: Jéssica Delboni (104.8) vs. Jillian DeCoursey (104.7)
Flyweight: Maiju Suotama (123) vs. Ketlen Souza (123)
Strawweight: Liz Tracy (115.9) vs. Valesca Machado (115.8)
Flyweight: Kaytlin Neil (125.5) vs. Hannah Guy (126)
Flyweight: Helen Peralta (125.9) vs. Poliana Botelho (125.4)
Bantamweight: Brittney Cloudy (135.6) vs. Montserrat Rendon (135)
Strawweight: Nadia Vera (115.2) vs. Shauna Bannon (115.4)
Atomweight Title: Jéssica Delboni (104.8) vs. Jillian DeCoursey (104.7)
Flyweight: Maiju Suotama (123) vs. Ketlen Souza (123)
Strawweight: Liz Tracy (115.9) vs. Valesca Machado (115.8)
Flyweight: Kaytlin Neil (125.5) vs. Hannah Guy (126)
Flyweight: Helen Peralta (125.9) vs. Poliana Botelho (125.4)
Bantamweight: Brittney Cloudy (135.6) vs. Montserrat Rendon (135)
Strawweight: Nadia Vera (115.2) vs. Shauna Bannon (115.4)
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It's great to see Meatball taking erin grappling threat seriously but I'd be very surprised if she can shut erin down here.
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There has never been talent to support 145. Hell, there has rarely been talent at 145. 135 lbs. women who move up for easy fights, a cheating bully who finally lost when she met someone with skill who she could not bully and the 135 lb.s woman who moved up to take her out so in 20 years she can pay for her kids tuition.
From the unified rankings:
1. Amanda “Lioness” Nunes (22-5-0) – UFC
2. Cristiane “Cyborg” Justino (26-2-0, 1 ND) – Bellator
3. Macy Chiasson (8-2-0) – UFC
4. Norma “The Immortal” Dumont Viana (7-2-0) – UFC
5. Felicia “FeeNom” Spencer (9-3-0) – UFC
6. “Alpha” Cat Zingano (13-4-0) – Bellator
7. Arlene “Angerfist” Blencowe (15-9-0) – Bellator
8. Pam “Bam” Sorenson (9-5-0) – Bellator
9. Leslie “The Peacemaker” Smith (12-9-1) – Bellator
10. Dayana Silva (10-7-0) – Bellator
From the above list the only woman who has never been scheduled to fight lighter than 145 is Spencer and she should have been if she ever realized that cardio is not multiple trips through the buffet line. (yes, Cyborg's first two fights were at 135 and she missed weight both times.) Two members of the above list that I know of (Zingano and Smith) have fought at 125 - and Smith fought Cyborg twice.
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Why is it so important women cut more weight to you and others?
Macy has looked fucking aweful starving herself to 135 she's much better at 145.
Norma when has she ever made that 135??
Blencowe also went from be a starved loser at BW to a healthy savage at fw.
Nearly every ranked ufc BW has missed weight, many multiple times, there should be less bw and more fw fights not the other way around. We get bigger stronger healthier fights.
If these were men y'all be saying they should be fighting up a class and extreme cutting should not be allowed.
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There’s not enough talent to support both divisions, so support the one that actually has the talent.
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If talent is the issue, wouldn’t it make sense to support 145 instead? All 135ers can fight at 145 but not all 145er can make 135. If just you have all of these women fight 145 you have bigger division with more talent. Like the women’s version of heavyweight
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Why force the fighters who can make 135 no problem, and actually have talent, to fight heavier women with less talent? What a dumb idea. People need to just get over featherweight a,ready
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You'd basically have the same situation you had when 140 was a thing at EliteXC. You'd get a few natural featherweights (Like Carano and Cyborg) beating up on a bunch of bantamweights. It's completely unfair to expect bantamweights to move up and put themselves at a disadvantage for the sake of propping up one of the worst divisions in MMA history.
And for the record, the vast majority of featherweights could fight safely at 135. Even someone like Julia Budd is close to the same size as someone like Nunes. She's just excessively muscled like lots of other FWs who use size and strength to compensate for their lack of skill. Blencowe is 5 ft 6, so I don't see why she'd have that much trouble making 135. Even Cyborg could've likely made 135 if she actually made the effort (She had like 6+ years to prepare her body. She just didn't want to lose muscle).
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I just started a Play by Play thread for tonight’s Invicta card. Hope to see some of you all there. I love Invicta. Enjoy the fights.
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I VERY STRONGLY DOUBT THAT.
The absolute best 145er in the world is a 135er—Amanda Nunes. Norma Dumont a 145 got beat by a middling 135er. Megan Anderson got beat by Holly Holm. And most of the people fighting at 135 are just bloated 145ers to begin with.
Cyborg is exception because she would have been a champion regardless. Every single other 145er the planet doesn’t have much edge if any 145er. Please name the 145er on planet earth other than Cyborg that would be beating on 135ers. I will wait.
And Cyborg mostly fought 135ers anyway. In fact has she I think the only true 145er she has fought in her ENTIRE CAREER was Julia Budd. So would anything really change at all?
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To solve the issue of lacking talent in both divisions. That’s the reason.
And not to mention 135ers are ALREADY FIGHTING ON A REGULAR BASIS 145ers anyway.
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Please find one place where I said it was important that she or anyone else cut more weight? I am stating the reality of where the talent lies.
I would not be saying that and I have never once spoken out about extreme weight cutting. This would make me a hypocrite as I cut more that a little bit of weight once or twice myself. Please do not make up shit about things I not only did not say but would never say, it is not all that difficult you simply do not have to type it out.
If we wish to find a fight where Dumont made 135 we have to go all the way back to her fight with AES in 2020, Does the old guy have to work the internet for you any more?
Blencowe a savage? Yeah, great until she fights women with skill. It is easier to look better fighting less skilled women.
I will say once again if people cannot respond to what I actually write do not bother responding to me at all. It is not that difficult. You really have to do nothing.
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I agree. The cheating controversy currently gripping the chess world really does outweigh everything in MMA. And anything else in the news. Glad you put it so succinctly EOS!
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I agree. The cheating controversy currently gripping the chess world really does outweigh everything in MMA. And anything else in the news. Glad you put it so succinctly EOS!
Agreed. Unicorns are purple because pancakes.
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My thoughts on mixing 135 and 145 to make a somewhat decent division are not completely done and I am thinking through the pros and cons even as I type this so if someone makes a compelling case it could sway me if a different direction.
The 1st question I would ask myself is doing this even worth the hassle. Like what talent at 145 is a must have that you would rather this than just cutting the division itself and putting time into 105 where you can actually have a chance to get a really good division in the future and have a possible Asian champion. In this hypothetical situation lets say you are the UFC. What other talent is left in this division that would make you go through the trouble of mixing divisions?
Looking at the tapology 145 rankings.
Cyborg? - She was done in the UFC forever the moment she faked that video. So she is out
Amanda? - Amanda is a 135er and Double Champ means nothing in a division as bad as 145.
Kayla? - She is one who the UFC could make into a Star. She wont be a Ronda type star but one that can Co-main and headline cards.
Larissa Pacheco? - Was not good in the UFC at 135. However, she was young back then and now look like she took some secret sauce. She will put on good performances against the low level at 145. She would be worth it for the highlights alone.
Julia Budd? - I been saying this back when people thought she was really good back in Bellator. Every time she faced a fighter we knew for sure was really good she gets destroyed. I have just not been high on her for that reason.
Cat Zingano? - Without the implants she says she can make 135 easy. So not her.
Leslie Smith? - She is a 135er and has bad history with the UFC so not her.
Leah McCourt? - You can have her get a pop in Ireland. The truth is you can get any Irish fighter to get a pop in Ireland and she is not good enough to go through the hassle.
Sinead Kavanagh? - Same situation as Leah McCourt.
Pam Sorenson? - Too boring and not good enough. This is why the UFC stayed far away from her when she was in Invicta.
Josiane Nunes? - 135er
Arlene Blencowe? - Best of the rest in Bellator. She put on a great fight vs Cyborg but lost twice to Julia Budd and I already don't think of Budd that highly. Not talented enough to warrant mixing the divisions.
Norma Dumont? - Best of the rest in the UFC. I am not 100% sure on how highly to rank Norma. 145 is too bad to know if the person is doing well because the competition is really bad. Still not worth mixing divisions.
In my opinion, no one else is even worth mentioning. When I first started this post I was going to go through the pros and cons of different ways to mix the division but with talent this low why waste my time. It is funny that the 2 talents that would be worth it are both in PFL. Just start 105 and pry away some of the stars who are in other promotions like they did with Combate at 115. It would be better in the long run for the promotion.
The 1st question I would ask myself is doing this even worth the hassle. Like what talent at 145 is a must have that you would rather this than just cutting the division itself and putting time into 105 where you can actually have a chance to get a really good division in the future and have a possible Asian champion. In this hypothetical situation lets say you are the UFC. What other talent is left in this division that would make you go through the trouble of mixing divisions?
Looking at the tapology 145 rankings.
Cyborg? - She was done in the UFC forever the moment she faked that video. So she is out
Amanda? - Amanda is a 135er and Double Champ means nothing in a division as bad as 145.
Kayla? - She is one who the UFC could make into a Star. She wont be a Ronda type star but one that can Co-main and headline cards.
Larissa Pacheco? - Was not good in the UFC at 135. However, she was young back then and now look like she took some secret sauce. She will put on good performances against the low level at 145. She would be worth it for the highlights alone.
Julia Budd? - I been saying this back when people thought she was really good back in Bellator. Every time she faced a fighter we knew for sure was really good she gets destroyed. I have just not been high on her for that reason.
Cat Zingano? - Without the implants she says she can make 135 easy. So not her.
Leslie Smith? - She is a 135er and has bad history with the UFC so not her.
Leah McCourt? - You can have her get a pop in Ireland. The truth is you can get any Irish fighter to get a pop in Ireland and she is not good enough to go through the hassle.
Sinead Kavanagh? - Same situation as Leah McCourt.
Pam Sorenson? - Too boring and not good enough. This is why the UFC stayed far away from her when she was in Invicta.
Josiane Nunes? - 135er
Arlene Blencowe? - Best of the rest in Bellator. She put on a great fight vs Cyborg but lost twice to Julia Budd and I already don't think of Budd that highly. Not talented enough to warrant mixing the divisions.
Norma Dumont? - Best of the rest in the UFC. I am not 100% sure on how highly to rank Norma. 145 is too bad to know if the person is doing well because the competition is really bad. Still not worth mixing divisions.
In my opinion, no one else is even worth mentioning. When I first started this post I was going to go through the pros and cons of different ways to mix the division but with talent this low why waste my time. It is funny that the 2 talents that would be worth it are both in PFL. Just start 105 and pry away some of the stars who are in other promotions like they did with Combate at 115. It would be better in the long run for the promotion.
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Don’t particularly want to get involved, but Dumont weighed in at 139.5 for that fight. Going onto her Instagram, the only time she successfully made weight at 135 was her pro debut in 2016. Every other fight she either missed weight or was fighting at either 145 or 140
