Ok I'll be the one to say it - Pantoja's fighting style is utterly awful

Speakerbox said:
Sorry, saying bantam fights are mostly boring is insane. It's a division where a guy ranked 50th has more skill than any top 10 guy at MW LHW or HW.

There is talent at FW, do you only watch the UFC????? It's shallow because the ufc doesn't put any resources into signing, promoting, or developing talent there, as evidenced by them letting go Horiguchi and even Moreno at some point. 170 and below are the only weight classes that have good fighters in 2024. Look at the rankings in the other weight classes, please, and list all the fghters that can wrestle, kickbox, and do bjj well while having good cardio for 5 rounds. I'll wait. The top 10 at HW and LHW are literally meme fighters or unproven fighters that do hard punch against meme fighters until they fall. MW is shit too.
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cool, i have my own opinion
 
Killer Kadoogan said:
cool, i have my own opinion
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im aware of that, and I am not saying you can't have it, but I explained why I have mine and you didn't really explain why you have yours.

if you just like big meatheads swanging, that's totally fine...i used to love LHW too back when it was deep, I am not anti higher weightclasses in general. shit was sick in pride and post pride ufc.
 
Speakerbox said:
dumbest thing i've ever heard. flyweight isnt deep because the ufc let go a bunch of fighters and they dont promote the fighters they do have, the only times they headline, the rest of the card is shit like this saturday. also the worst flyweight fighter is a million times more exciting than anyone in MW, LHW, or HW. and BW is the best and deepest division in the sport.

consolidate LHW and HW imo, and even then it'll the worst male division by far. LHW and HW i don't even consider real MMA. i love poatan, but the fact that an old chinny kickboxer can beat champs in 2 weight classes shows how shit the talent pool is. imagine anyone at those weight classes even attempting the scrambles erceg and pantoja had without injuring themselves.
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FLW in the UFC is boring and has basically 0 interesting matchups left to watch with Pantoja cruising with the belt. Unless they resign DJ or Horiguchi, I have almost no interest in the division in the UFC. You are correct that the UFC doesn't put in as many resources because it's the least popular men's division. People just don't care that much about the smallest men fighting. Is it fair? No, but hey that's life. If your division doesn't make money, it isn't going to have money shoved into it. At the end of the day, it's business.

Muhammad Mokaev was supposed to be the next great title challenger, undefeated record and all that but I think he looked absolutely atrocious against Alex Perez. His striking is non-existent, which is crazy considering he had a 23-0 amateur career before turning pro, but he's only 23 and still has a very, very long time to develop if he stays injury free.

BW is top heavy and still has Cejudo ranked top 5 along with Dom Cruz at 11th. Sean vs Sandhagen is a good fight, Umar if he fights actual ranked opponents could shake things up along with Figgy, but that's about it. Merab is boring. Guys like Font and Yadong have proven themselves to be gatekeeper levels. Still better than FLW though.

Your assertion that "LHW and HW i don't even consider real MMA" is a very moronic thing to say, but unfortunately only your first.

Calling Poatan "an old chinny kickboxer" is your second moronic statement. He won two titles in Glory as well, he isn't some run of the mill kickboxer, the guy is one of this generations greatest combat athletes lol. Calling him chinny tells me you fell for the memes and don't understand how dehydration affects the brain (drink some water, you are dehydrated) nor are you aware that his loss to Izzy was his only KO in his career.
Poatan has beaten more champions than Khabib had through his career, in the span of a few years. This is a testament to what kind of fighter he is, not how weak said divisions are.

If your definition of good fighters is "muh scrambles" then God bless your little heart. Different human beings of different sizes have different physical capabilities. Pantoja isn't ever going to knock someone's block off like Poatan nor snap anyone's arm like Mir, just isn't happening.

Your third moronic statement that drew my attention was "the worst flyweight fighter is a million times more exciting than anyone in MW, LHW, or HW."

Now this is just silly, but it does lead us to one definitive fact...

You are 100% a manlet.
<You11>
 
Speakerbox said:
im aware of that, and I am not saying you can't have it, but I explained why I have mine and you didn't really explain why you have yours.

if you just like big meatheads swanging, that's totally fine...i used to love LHW too back when it was deep, I am not anti higher weightclasses in general. shit was sick in pride and post pride ufc.
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"mach" sakurai
 
You seem to have the privelage of never witnessing a Belal or Leon fight.
 
Killer Kadoogan said:
or i can have my own opinion and call attention to the farce that are these multiple divisions of barely any talent and an official ranking system that means jack shite because yes, on any given day, anyone can beat anyone.
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125lb and 135lb seem like they have more talent than a lot of the other divisions
 
His striking is wild, but i think he is extremely exciting to watch, especially on the ground.

His ability to find the back, his guard passing, and ability to entangle the legs from bottom in order to create scrambles are amazing to watch.

Very weird fighter to complain about being boring imo.
 
This is going to make some of the wrestling nuthuggers mad but, Pantojas ground game is P4P best in the UFC right now.

The flyweight is a division with most versatile fighters, there are not only strikers or only grapplers, and to be the champ, you need to be competitive in both against the top guys. That’s the reason why he is so successful at the moment.
 
Conan the K-9 said:
This is going to make some of the wrestling nuthuggers mad but, Pantojas ground game is P4P best in the UFC right now.

The flyweight is a division with most versatile fighters, there are not only strikers or only grapplers, and to be the champ, you need to be competitive in both against the top guys. That’s the reason why he is so successful at the moment.
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Best in the UFC? Armand & Oliviera are better than Pantoja, wrestling wise? Makhachev is probably the best at grappling currently.

You don’t need to be competitive when you can just go in and dominate your opponents. Pantoja struggled against someone who shouldn’t have been in the ring with him rankings wise, but 125 is competitive. I think he struggles in rematches against France, Kape, and I think Albazi & Mojave gives him his hardest fights. Every single division has well rounded fighters, you’re just choosing to focus on the 125 division. 135,145 & 155 are all competitive all across the board up to 15 ranked fighter.
 
Pantoja has a good resume but skill for skill I think he's worst than a lot of past flyweights.

Guys like Horiguci who fought dj way too early and didn't stay in the ufc that long after losing to dj because they wanted to get rid of 125. Same with Cejudo. Winning the belt from dj and then having to move to 135. He was kinda forced. Remember him begging to Dana don't cut 125. I saved the division.

Benavidez is older than dj by 2 years. His prime was probably wec/early ufc days. Prime dodson was super athletic and crazy. Even someone like bagautinov was super skilled albeit juiced to gills. He's boring, but you can't argue he's not good.

Formiga, Figgy
 
Kb7 said:
Best in the UFC? Armand & Oliviera are better than Pantoja, wrestling wise? Makhachev is probably the best at grappling currently.

You don’t need to be competitive when you can just go in and dominate your opponents. Pantoja struggled against someone who shouldn’t have been in the ring with him rankings wise, but 125 is competitive. I think he struggles in rematches against France, Kape, and I think Albazi & Mojave gives him his hardest fights. Every single division has well rounded fighters, you’re just choosing to focus on the 125 division. 135,145 & 155 are all competitive all across the board up to 15 ranked fighter.
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Oliveria is a killer when it goes for going for subs, but his ground game is not as complete as Pantojas and several other fighters for that matter. Charles is probably my 2nd favorite fighter behind Arman, but people talk like he is Damian Maia when he isn't anything like that.
 
Doctor Grudge said:
Oliveria is a killer when it goes for going for subs, but his ground game is not as complete as Pantojas and several other fighters for that matter. Charles is probably my 2nd favorite fighter behind Arman, but people talk like he is Damian Maia when he isn't anything like that.
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You’re probably right, he does lack the wrestling, ability to get his opponents on the ground and control. Pantoja is great, but that person claiming he has the best ground game in the UFC is kinda a stretch, I don’t even think he has the best wrestling in the division in his division.
 
WoozyFailGuy said:
FLW in the UFC is boring and has basically 0 interesting matchups left to watch with Pantoja cruising with the belt. Unless they resign DJ or Horiguchi, I have almost no interest in the division in the UFC. You are correct that the UFC doesn't put in as many resources because it's the least popular men's division. People just don't care that much about the smallest men fighting. Is it fair? No, but hey that's life. If your division doesn't make money, it isn't going to have money shoved into it. At the end of the day, it's business.

Muhammad Mokaev was supposed to be the next great title challenger, undefeated record and all that but I think he looked absolutely atrocious against Alex Perez. His striking is non-existent, which is crazy considering he had a 23-0 amateur career before turning pro, but he's only 23 and still has a very, very long time to develop if he stays injury free.

BW is top heavy and still has Cejudo ranked top 5 along with Dom Cruz at 11th. Sean vs Sandhagen is a good fight, Umar if he fights actual ranked opponents could shake things up along with Figgy, but that's about it. Merab is boring. Guys like Font and Yadong have proven themselves to be gatekeeper levels. Still better than FLW though.

Your assertion that "LHW and HW i don't even consider real MMA" is a very moronic thing to say, but unfortunately only your first.

Calling Poatan "an old chinny kickboxer" is your second moronic statement. He won two titles in Glory as well, he isn't some run of the mill kickboxer, the guy is one of this generations greatest combat athletes lol. Calling him chinny tells me you fell for the memes and don't understand how dehydration affects the brain (drink some water, you are dehydrated) nor are you aware that his loss to Izzy was his only KO in his career.
Poatan has beaten more champions than Khabib had through his career, in the span of a few years. This is a testament to what kind of fighter he is, not how weak said divisions are.

If your definition of good fighters is "muh scrambles" then God bless your little heart. Different human beings of different sizes have different physical capabilities. Pantoja isn't ever going to knock someone's block off like Poatan nor snap anyone's arm like Mir, just isn't happening.

Your third moronic statement that drew my attention was "the worst flyweight fighter is a million times more exciting than anyone in MW, LHW, or HW."

Now this is just silly, but it does lead us to one definitive fact...

You are 100% a manlet.
<You11>
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I'm 6'1 sorry. But I'm a skinny bitch so you cam make fun of that instead.

Fine, maybe the fights aren't "a million" more times exciting, a little exaggeration never hurt anyone on sherdog.

I've been watching mma for a long time and sorry, based on my preferences, current ufc hw and lhw roster is meme mma to me.

Mw is more fun, but it's all guys that do one thing well and mainly get buy on athleticism and not skills. Also the rate of improvement from prospect to top 10/5 in those 3 weight classes is sooooo much lower than in the smaller weight classes. You rarely have strikers that become incredible grapplers in a couple years, or vice versa. That's the stuff I care about.

Also, who tf isn't a kickboxing champ in kickboxing? Even andrew tate's dumb ass has a championship. Yes Alex had a good career in kickboxing but he isn't some wunderkind by kickboxing standards sorry, and neither was izzy. They are like b plus talents historically in kickboxing at best. If you apply Alex's skills to bw, would he really be able to beat like 6 heavy handed grapplers otw to the title, without the ability to just punch a guy dead isntanly? BTW Alex is one of my favorite higher weight class fighters, and I'd love for him to be a 3 division champion, but that would be equally an indictment of the divisions as much as a proof of his abilities. I just can't take the divisions seriously where it's old guys, prospects that keep fucking up, and meme fighters skating by on athleticism.

I agree that cejudo and Cruz are wasting spots in the top 10, but that's not how I judge divisions. Here is how it makes sense to me: which divisions are the most likely to produce fights between people outside the top 15/20 that are full of well rounded skill and cardio? It's not hw lhw or mw, people that are unranked are often unwatchablely bad CURRENTLY, this may improve in the future and I hope it does. I've seen bw fights between ppl ranked 30 and 40 that had way more skill than people in top contender bouts in higher divisions in recent years. That's just how I feel bro.
 
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Man did you know what is LnP? Lol
Pantoja's ground game is essentially advancing positions via scrambles. And that what he does the whole figth.

Pantoja is a beast, his physicality and pace is incredible for 125.
But I think he lacks a bit of figth IQ.
Erceg seems very open to leg kicks, and a I don't understand why he chooses to boxing against a pugilist.

And I dont like his corner's attitude saying "hey chill out you're 3-0"
Erceg definitely won R2, and even agreeing with pantoja winning R3 I can see arguments here for erceg.
After that erceg overwhelmed him R4.
The figth was 2-2 in my scores going to the 5th.
I think its not good fighting such an decisive round with the mentality that you are 3-1.
pantoja definitely won the 5th, but you never know, inst the first time I've saw his couches doing it, and that attitude can cost him a world title some day.

BTW, I love to watch pantoja, great champ, I can see him defending at least 2-3 more times.
 
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