Out of the 4 GOATS, is Fedor the only one who deliberately engaged his opponents at their strengths?

[DS7]

Well, at the time Fedor fought Zulu, Zulu was 7-0 with every win by (T)KO. So, that would be his strength.

lmfao i love Fiodor fanboys

 

[BFoe]

lmfao i love Fiodor fanboys

Your welcome for the free MMA history lesson, bud

 

[markys00]

List is a fail. Jon Jones can not be on this list

 

[Dionysian]

Nice UFC related thread.

Honestly Sherdog should just make a Fedor centric subforum so his fans can have their circle jerks about his legacy over there. He hasn't been relevant in a long time but people seem to want to talk about him every day.

A guy unanimously agreed by all fans to be either the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or at worst 4th GOAT = never irrelevant. Literally only corporate PR accounts say he isn't top 4 or say he isn't the GOAT HW.

Have some respect for the legends of the sport.

 

[capnlarge]

If anything, fighting opponents at their strength is a bad idea. Fedor was successful at doing it but having poor strategy is a mark against GOATness IMO. Like if you were making a perfect fighter, you would want them to deal 100% damage while taking 0% damage.

 

[HHJ]

Fedor is God no doubt about it but you can't frame these other guys as safe. They fought exactly how they should fight. If gsp had dynamite m80s in his hands he would have fought differently. Same w Anderson and Jones. You have to maximize your natural abilities

 

[JustBleed69]

GSP made a career of taking down D1 wrestlers, I would say that's meeting his foes at their strengths.

 

[HHJ]

GSP made a career of taking down D1 wrestlers, I would say that's meeting his foes at their strengths.

I mean wrestling isn't playing it safe. You have to propel yourself right at your opponents. It's not his fault they can't stop him from doing it.

 

[jitzmonkey]

I say that 2 of the four are proven steroid cheats; while another thrived in a promotion run by organized crime.

We all know that the mob/yakuza/cartel/etc... always make sure that their businesses operate on the up and up and would never stoop so low as to predetermine the results of sporting events.

That leaves GSP who you correctly identified as someone who would refuse to play to his opponents' strengths.



As I'm sure that this will not be a controversial opinion and that no one will want to attempt to contradict, I'll be signing out of my account until some time next week. Have a good weekend all!

The notion that Fedor deliberately sought to prove himself by defeating his enemies on their home turf is ludicrous.

And by the way, it also contradicts the general perception of Fedor as a modest man.

The fact that Fedor was so good that he could actually make it look like he was defeating his opponent using their weapon is because he was...a superb fighter.

 

[HHJ]

I say that 2 of the four are proven steroid cheats; while another thrived in a promotion run by organized crime.

We all know that the mob/yakuza/cartel/etc... always make sure that their businesses operate on the up and up and would never stoop so low as to predetermine the results of sporting events.

That leaves GSP who you correctly identified as someone who would refuse to play to his opponents' strengths.



As I'm sure that this will not be a controversial opinion and that no one will want to attempt to contradict, I'll be signing out of my account until some time next week. Have a good weekend all!

If PEDS were legal then it's not cheating


Also if you can't tell wether a fight was real or fixed than you don't know shit about fighting

 

[HHJ]

If pride fixed all their fights why didn't saku ever beat wanderlei ?

 

[markg171]

Christ you Fedor cucks never stop.

Fedor had massive power and was a Grandmaster of Sambo and an International Master of Judo.

No fucking shit he didn't care if they fought standing or on the ground.

 

[BFoe]

say that 2 of the four are proven steroid cheats; while another thrived in a promotion run by organized crime.

We all know that the mob/yakuza/cartel/etc... always make sure that their businesses operate on the up and up and would never stoop so low as to predetermine the results of sporting events.

That leaves GSP who you correctly identified as someone who would refuse to play to his opponents' strengths.

Eh, the whole “PRIDE fixed fights” thing is silly and overblown. By pretty much all accounts, there was only shenanigans like that in very early PRIDE events (there was at UFC events too), and PRIDE fights were all legit for quite awhile before Fedor appeared on the scene there.

Fedor had massive power and was a Grandmaster of Sambo and an International Master of Judo.

Yes, I too think Fedor is the GOAT and the most well-rounded HW of all time.

 

[Typrune Goatley]

I don't think he did it in a macho way trying to proove himself so much as he realised that it was arguebly the better way to fight someone like Mirko who had such a strong takedown defence.
Fights like Semmy were he could target a weakness more easily he did.

I think its as much as anything the product of the era he was fighting in with a higher quality of opponent were sometimes there was not an "easy tactic" to follow.

This is exactly what I came to say. He only did it for tactical reasons.

With Cro Cop he was definitely looking to push him back and put Mirko on the back foot to avoid the kicks, and get to the clinch and eventually set up takedowns. He definitely was prepared for striking exchanges from all the training with the Dutch kickboxers though.

In the first Nog fight, I believe Fedor may have not been quite as confident in his standup at that point yet. He landed a nice straight right hand early but I think he respected Nog's stand up and Fedor wasn't quite as polished of a striker as he would become two years later. Also, Fedor had just beaten Herring and Schilt with all ground strikes so he was comfortable working that same successful strategy again, even if it was against a great Jiu Jitsu fighter like Nog. Fedor came prepared, kept high posture, never let Nog control his wrists or break his posture. At that point, Fedor was more confident in his grappling/GnP than his striking against the world champ. By the time the third fight rolled around, Fedor knew he had the advantages in the striking and takedown and TDD departments so he adjusted his strategy accordingly.

 

[markg171]

Nice UFC related thread.

Honestly Sherdog should just make a Fedor centric subforum so his fans can have their circle jerks about his legacy over there. He hasn't been relevant in a long time but people seem to want to talk about him every day.

The way these guys talk you'd never know that Fedor was the #2 Bellator HW only a year ago.

It's beyond bizarre.

 

[Typrune Goatley]

Also, I hate to admit it but we need to give GSP some credit for this category too.

Georges the young Karate Kid from Canada was somehow repeatedly taking down high level D1 wrestlers and grapplers in the Octagon. He was beating them at their own game. Taking them down and holding them down. Watching him take down Matt Hughes and Josh Koscheck and dominate them on the mat was amazing. I know the fight with Hendricks was close and controversial but GSP even took down that monster a few times. He also took down Shields and Karo and BJ Penn who had some of the best takedown defense in the world.

Whenever I found out he was training with the Canadian Olympic wrestling team it started to make a little bit of sense. He is also a freak athlete. Its still unreal though how he was able to take down these wrestlers who had wrestled their whole lives at a high level.

 

[moreorless87]

This is exactly what I came to say. He only did it for tactical reasons.

With Cro Cop he was definitely looking to push him back and put Mirko on the back foot to avoid the kicks, and get to the clinch and eventually set up takedowns. He definitely was prepared for striking exchanges from all the training with the Dutch kickboxers though.

In the first Nog fight, I believe Fedor may have not been quite as confident in his standup at that point yet. He landed a nice straight right hand early but I think he respected Nog's stand up and Fedor wasn't quite as polished of a striker as he would become two years later. Also, Fedor had just beaten Herring and Schilt with all ground strikes so he was comfortable working that same successful strategy again, even if it was against a great Jiu Jitsu fighter like Nog. Fedor came prepared, kept high posture, never let Nog control his wrists or break his posture. At that point, Fedor was more confident in his grappling/GnP than his striking against the world champ. By the time the third fight rolled around, Fedor knew he had the advantages in the striking and takedown and TDD departments so he adjusted his strategy accordingly.

I think as well in the first Nog fight he realised that Nog tended to work with quite an open guard to allow him to attack with subs and sweeps, waiting until he had those open guard situations he could throw bombs in GnP from a safe range.

You can see in the rematches Nog is basically forced to switch to a tight high guard, it limits Fedor's GnP ability but it also limits Nogs ability to attack from his back.

 

[Trabaho]

Saying he stand with strikers, and grapples with grapplers does not mean, and I can't believe I have to say it, that he ONLY grappled with grapplers, and ONLY struck with strikers. He just never ran away from either, like most other fighter do when they play it safe.

Here is a few examples -

Jon Jones vs Gane - using his strengths against his opponents weakness. He wanted NOTHING to do with Ganes striking.

Anderson Silva vs Demian Maia shows how Anderson was not willing to engage in ANY grapping. At all. none.


you will not find a Fedor fight where he runs from strikers and try to take them down constantly.
You will not find a Fedor fight where he is afraid of engaging in grappling.


Crocop fight :
Half the time they spend on the ground was because CroCop tried to take down Fedor, and got reversed. Fedor did not Jon Jones it and just go for takedowns - he stood and struck with a man many considered the best HW striker. Hell, Fedor tried to high kick crocop - a move he rarely, if ever, uses.

Werdum:
Fedor jumped into Werdums guard twice. Only closely escaping a triangle the first time - yet he still jumped into the guard again instead of backing away and letting Werdum up. And if you think jumping into the best HW grappler in the worlds guard does not count as grappling, wtf are you doing here?

But at 34 he went out his prime and got finished 3 x in a row including vs a MW ?

 

[Trabaho]

Stood with CroCop, grappled with Werdum. And that is just 2 examples from a career full of them.

Boxed with Zulu, MMAd vs Hong Man Choi, tested his chin with Hendo. Got beat up by Brett Rogers. Coruppted vs Maldanado. Ducked Übereem. Goat.

 

[Dr Guildo]

He certainly were the one with least tendency to playing it safe and often trying to end fights.