Out of the 4 GOATS, is Fedor the only one who deliberately engaged his opponents at their strengths?

[HHJ]

it just goes to show you how great that Fedor is. He never fought in the ufc yet we all simp for him

I mean if you watched him when he was around, when PRIDE was around, you dont really hold fighting in the UFC as the be all end all, considering UFC was far in second most of that time.

Thats when Tim Sylvia was their guy.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

I think the hand injuries potentially had an effect, big issue of course is that Herring and Nog at that time were tough tough bastards and he landed an insane amount of power punches on them.

I think style matchups were also important though, guys like Coleman, Randleman and Hunt were just naturally more targetable with submissions and Mirko's defencive guard was actually very strong making GnP harder to landing effectively.

Definitely, Fedor fought a lot of very durable fighters.

 

[Royce's Gi]

YES!

Mods should make a rule that every thread needs a Fedor-tribute!

GOAT!

Fedor is Love : Fedor is Life​

 

[filthybliss]

Bader is the UltraGOAT since he engaged GOATdor in his strengths and knocked his ass out x2
Prime Aspinal would mop him

i get that bones is easy to hate and a lot people are having wet dreams of aspinall creaming on him but aspinall's resume is still paper thin. sure, he looks great and has racked up a few notable wins.

bader knocked out a geriatric fedor. in his bader's prime, he got submitted by Tito and KOed by Glover. Whereas, Prime Fedor was undefeated for 9 yrs against the roided dragons of Pride

 

[Oddmonster]

But at 34 he went out his prime and got finished 3 x in a row including vs a MW ?

Boxed with Zulu, MMAd vs Hong Man Choi, tested his chin with Hendo. Got beat up by Brett Rogers. Coruppted vs Maldanado. Ducked Übereem. Goat.

I have this theory, that Fedor got some kind of nerve/brain damage in the Bigfoot fight. After that fight, his chin was gone completely. Both Henderson and Bader just had to touch him and he was out.
Or it might be that being rich, and undefeated for so long, took the spark out of him. Who knows.

I thinnk one factor that played in with fedor is the age old adage - Speed is the first thing to go.


And bro - If you don't think the armbar on hong Man Choi was impressive, there is something wrong with you.

 

[Oddmonster]

So Jones didn't take down DC and stand with Gus?

Yes, and he arguably lost to Gus in the first fight, and was popped for roids in the DC fight.

That I think Fedor is the GOAT, does not mean I think Jon is dogshit. I do think his physical gifts + steroids + cheating tarnishes him enough that he is just not my GOAT.

 

[HHJ]

YES!

Mods should make a rule that every thread needs a Fedor-tribute!

GOAT!

Fedor is Love : Fedor is Life​

Fedor should be the main forum and everything else a sub forum of Fedor discussion

 

[Trabaho]

I have this theory, that Fedor got some kind of nerve/brain damage in the Bigfoot fight. After that fight, his chin was gone completely. Both Henderson and Bader just had to touch him and he was out.
Or it might be that being rich, and undefeated for so long, took the spark out of him. Who knows.

I thinnk one factor that played in with fedor is the age old adage - Speed is the first thing to go.


And bro - If you don't think the armbar on hong Man Choi was impressive, there is something wrong with you.

The new generation of HWs was just too big phisically. He struggled vs Rogers. Rogers actually was good and undefeated, Fedor and Overeem broke him and ruined his career.
In Pride noone was a big HW and had elite skills that he faced. Besides Big Nog. The other big guys he fought didn't have top tier skill, championship level.
Bader loss doesn't count he was 40 and had +40 fights.
Hendo is a similar size and Fedor came off 2 losses, it was a normal loss.
Injuries probably also caught up to Fedor.
Big Foot was at his best. No weight limit. Supplements. 300 pounds lean.
Fedor is a goat but prime Heat Herring, Fujita, Randleman, Shilt, Coleman were not as good as the next generation of DC, Stipe, JDS, Cain. Sport evolved. Well he had a great career. At HW noone stays undefeated. He was also majorly outsized. Which gave him a speed advantage but at some point it was too much.

Yeah HMC is a giant the fight was impressive. I was just making a counter argument.

 

[blaseblase]

Yes, and he arguably lost to Gus in the first fight, and was popped for roids in the DC fight.

That I think Fedor is the GOAT, does not mean I think Jon is dogshit. I do think his physical gifts + steroids + cheating tarnishes him enough that he is just not my GOAT.

This thread is not a GOAT debate, it's arguing that Fedor is the only all time great that engaged opponents at their strength and that's simply not true. Jones, GSP and DJ did it too.

 

[bambammccoy]

I think it was all just coincidence.

Fedor felt it would be riskier to take Mirko down early and felt more confident in taking away the kicks with loads of pressure. Just happened to be on the feet where Fedors path to victory was clearest.

Same with Nog I'm sure he saw tendencies in his gaurd work that made him an easy target for plenty of GnP from full gaurd.

Jones didn't really beat many of his opponents at their own game as much as people say, from my perspective atleast.

 

[markg171]

bader knocked out a geriatric fedor. in his bader's prime, he got submitted by Tito and KOed by Glover. Whereas, Prime Fedor was undefeated for 9 yrs against the roided dragons of Pride

I love how the Fedor stans have to try and pretend that an old, chinny, wrestler-boxer Bader wasn't the easiest matchup Fedor could've ever possibly had to become Bellator HW champ.

And he instead got KTFO twice because he's always been a reckless fighter with bad tendencies and so is entirely predictable to counter:

Bader, though, had plenty of respect for him and regarded him as plenty dangerous. Bader figured that Emelianenko would be wary of his wrestling, so he practiced the very hook that he used to knock Emelianenko out over and over and over in practice.

“You know what? I saw that moment,” Bader said. “You can ask my team. We practiced that moment a lot. I thought that punch was going to do it. You can’t see his right hand, because he throws from his hip. He’s very hard to see and he throws hard. But in doing so, you leave yourself exposed. We felt he was going to respect my wrestling a lot and that I’d be able to put one up top.

“If you look at any of the footage … we were practicing that stuff the whole time: Throwing a jab, getting our distance, feinting and then throwing that left hook.”

 

[Paul E Gensinger]

Fedor's biggest strength was fighting in a roped square. After the fall of PRIDE, fighting in caged octagons became the overwhelming standard for MMA. Fedor refused to evolve with the standards of the sport and stuck to fighting in roped squares for years.

When Fedor fought middleweight Matt Lindland, we saw one reason why he was so adamant about continuing to fight in roped squares. It allowed him to cheat by grabbing onto the ropes with his entire arm. The referee in the Lindland fight told Fedor at least 10 times to "let go of the ropes" and tried to physically remove Fedor's hand from the ropes, but Fedor just ignored the referee and continued to cheat.



In his early thirties, Fedor finally got with the times and made the move to fighting in caged octagons. He was thoroughly exposed in 4 straight fights. Instead of evolving his game and adapting to the caged octagon, he went back right back to fighting in roped squares on the regional circuit.

You are my brother

 

[Paul E Gensinger]

lmfao i love Fiodor fanboys

When will this end? I guess people can't afford to watch the UFC and just watch Pride clips on YouTube. And then post Fedor Fan Boy Cult Isn't Fedor Better Than God posts EVERY SINGLE WEEK.

 

[Gamer2k4]

GSP is pretty much a safe fighter predominately through his career.

Anderson Silva stayed in his lane most of the time. Leaned on his advantageous.

Probably Jon Jones has done it a few times, but not as often and deliberate as Fedor.

And if Fedor seems the most daring and most risk taking when it comes to fighting and beating his opponents at their strengths. Does that increase his value as a fighter in the GOAT conversation or it doesn't?

What say you?

This is the first time I've heard of Fedor purposely engaging his opponents at their strengths. I'm not saying he didn't, but it's certainly something that no one's ever made anything of until now.

Jones, on the other hand, did it regularly. He'd wrestle with wrestlers, submit grapplers, and outstrike strikers (whether inside when his opponent was better inside, like Glover, or outside when his opponent was better outside, like Gus). In fact, until Gane, I'm not sure there was really a time when he purposely exploited an opponent's weakness. Jones always liked to prove he was better than the other guy even at the other guy's best.

 

[Equinox Shadow]

Bones Jones lost to Reyes 3 rounds to 2 easily. Was gifted a decision. Shut your hypocritical mouth!

Only one of them is undefeated. Jon Goat Jones. Genghis Khan inside the cage, Jesus outside. A man I proudly call as my idol.

Fedor deliberately engage in his opponent at their strength, huh? Pretty sure I recalled him spamming takedown against Mark Hunt and Mirko, and got gifted a decision win against Arona who controlled him the whole fight.

 

[BFoe]

This is the first time I've heard of Fedor purposely engaging his opponents at their strengths. I'm not saying he didn't, but it's certainly something that no one's ever made anything of until now.

Jones, on the other hand, did it regularly. He'd wrestle with wrestlers, submit grapplers, and outstrike strikers (whether inside when his opponent was better inside, like Glover, or outside when his opponent was better outside, like Gus). In fact, until Gane, I'm not sure there was really a time when he purposely exploited an opponent's weakness. Jones always liked to prove he was better than the other guy even at the other guy's best.

Oh the topic is definitely a thing. Like, people have talked about Fedor fighting that way for ages. He definitely did it, but isn’t the only one. Jones and GSP certainly did as well at times.

 

[Trabaho]

I think it was all just coincidence.

Fedor felt it would be riskier to take Mirko down early and felt more confident in taking away the kicks with loads of pressure. Just happened to be on the feet where Fedors path to victory was clearest.

Same with Nog I'm sure he saw tendencies in his gaurd work that made him an easy target for plenty of GnP from full gaurd.

Jones didn't really beat many of his opponents at their own game as much as people say, from my perspective atleast.

Basically he likes to strike and grapple hence he used it both vs everyone. He wasn't a specialist. He was equally good at grappling, strikes and submissons. There are no more Demia Maias, everyone does everything nowadays. The sport is mainstream.

 

[savemgs]

The form explicitly states to discuss UFC, former WEC, former Strikeforce, and former Pride events here.

 

[Laheys'Liquorland]

Nice UFC related thread.

Honestly Sherdog should just make a Fedor centric subforum so his fans can have their circle jerks about his legacy over there. He hasn't been relevant in a long time but people seem to want to talk about him every day.

Kinda like boxing speaks about Ali everyday huh.
Fedor will never be forgotten as well as GOAT Jones.
Didn't need UFC to cement MMA legacy.

 

[HavokHarmon]

I don't think he did it in a macho way trying to proove himself so much as he realised that it was arguebly the better way to fight someone like Mirko who had such a strong takedown defence.
Fights like Semmy were he could target a weakness more easily he did.

I think its as much as anything the product of the era he was fighting in with a higher quality of opponent were sometimes there was not an "easy tactic" to follow.

Yeah the Cro Cop fight stands out to me in that regard. Jack Slack had a pretty good article about it years ago where he broke down Fedora strategy and why it was effective, basically Fedor didn’t give him room to kick and that was a pretty big part of his game.