Social Outrage over Maine lavishing $34M on 'Taj Mahal' apartments for asylum seekers and welcoming 75,000 newcomers this decade while leaving veterans and h

[PRESIDENT TRUMP]

I feel like my autocorrect has gotten worse in recent months. Anyone else noticing this?

Phone companies spending all they're R&D on ileagls

 

[ColemanwastheGOAT]

It's in the budget.

Where does the money for the budget come from?

 

[avenue94]

You could potentially streamline everything using software. Run applications though it with set parameters. But yes, there would be a need for investment. I like the GOP strategy, villianize and dehumanize them for politcal points and then exploite them for cheaper labour in the jobs of the dregs

Some of it, sure. But software upgrades are insanely expensive. I'm not even sure the process is digitized yet. And yes, I agree. The GOP's ideal is the problem, not the solution.

The other parts of the country do not want to deal with them. That's why they're bussing them into sanctuary cities to begin with. Now the sanctuary cities don't want them either.

Which again, can be fixed. The government is capable of tremendous lifts if the political will is there. That's the problem, no political will.

Again, if it was as simple as more immigration=stronger economy with no controls in place, we could just open the borders and watch our problems disappear. (Not that you're advocating that, but it's something I see posted often enough with no qualifiers ever accompanying it and I'm like "hold on...").

Sure, but like I said, the US is very far away from the point of diminishing returns on immigration, which comes even way before an open border or free movement of labor.

I was lookin for empirical data... not your opinion. Specifically with the latest policy of government paid room and board.

What ballpark figure do you like for the cost of housing migrants? Cuz I can pretty much guarantee their tax payments alone as citizens would eclipse it.

A majority of the migrants are coming from Venezuela and they're currently going through one of the worst economic crisis' in a long time. There's no treaty with Venezuela where we agreed to take all their migrants. The hell are you talking about?

A lot of these migrants would qualify for political asylum, which the US is obligated to somewhat respect due to treaties its signed. You are aware of Venezuela's political situation...right?

 

[kahiljabroni]

Some of it, sure. But software upgrades are insanely expensive. I'm not even sure the process is digitized yet. And yes, I agree. The GOP's ideal is the problem, not the solution.

Which again, can be fixed. The government is capable of tremendous lifts if the political will is there. That's the problem, no political will.

Sure, but like I said, the US is very far away from the point of diminishing returns on immigration, which comes even way before an open border or free movement of labor.

What ballpark figure do you like for the cost of housing migrants? Cuz I can pretty much guarantee their tax payments alone as citizens would eclipse it.

A lot of these migrants would qualify for political asylum, which the US is obligated to somewhat respect due to treaties its signed. You are aware of Venezuela's political situation...right?

You're talking like a clown. Nyc alone is spending 12 billion over a 3 year period. You think some sales tax from destitute people is going to cover that?

 

[Hog-train]

Which again, can be fixed. The government is capable of tremendous lifts if the political will is there. That's the problem, no political will.

The political will is not there and the people do not support it either.

A lot of these migrants would qualify for political asylum, which the US is obligated to somewhat respect due to treaties its signed. You are aware of Venezuela's political situation...right?

No they won't. It's incredibly hard to qualify for political asylum. For example, last year almost 90% of applications from Mexico got rejected.

What most of these people coming into the country do is apply for asylum (which takes years) and then hope they can get lost in the system or the laws somehow change. They know most of the cases will get rejected eventually.

 

[avenue94]

You're talking like a clown. Nyc alone is spending 12 billion over a 3 year period. You think some sales tax from destitute people is going to cover that?

Let's the do the very basic math and assume a migrant earns 50K a year for the next 30 years and spends 10K a year on taxable goods. So that's
-93K in social security contributions
-27K in sales tax at a 9% sales tax (I'm ballparking here, some goods obviously have higher tax rates)

So at 100K migrants, they would contribute $12 billion from those two revenue sources alone. That's ignoring other revenue streams and their actual economic productivity, and assuming they all don't earn more than a fairly low wage over their working lives. More than enough to offset deaths, any welfare or unemployment, etc.

The political will is not there and the people do not support it either.

And? This describes any myriad of government policies.

No they won't. It's incredibly hard to qualify for political asylum. For example, last year almost 90% of applications from Mexico got rejected.

So you are not familiar with Venezuela's political situation...? It's not remotely similar to Mexico.

What most of these people coming into the country do is apply for asylum (which takes years) and then hope they can get lost in the system or the laws somehow change. They know most of the cases will get rejected eventually.

If only there was a way to allocate more resources and speed up this process. And if only the GOP had had decades to pass policies to this effect. I wonder...

 

[Hog-train]

So you are not familiar with Venezuela's political situation...? It's not remotely similar to Mexico.

The vast majority of the Venezuelan cases will get rejected too.

If only there was a way to allocate more resources and speed up this process. And if only the GOP had had decades to pass policies to this effect. I wonder...

Yea I want them to speed up the process so they can be deported quicker.

 

[avenue94]

The vast majority of the Venezuelan cases will get rejected too.

Are you going to acknowledge how different Venezuela's political situation is to Mexico's?

At any rate, you may be correct, but each case still has to be reviewed. That's kind of how due process works.

Yea I want them to speed up the process so they can be deported quicker.

Sure, go call your reps and senators to fund it. You should have been calling them years ago if you wanted this done. Longstanding systemic failures over decades can't be fixed overnight.

 

[kahiljabroni]

Let's the do the very basic math and assume a migrant earns 50K a year for the next 30 years and spends 10K a year on taxable goods. So that's
-93K in social security contributions
-27K in sales tax at a 9% sales tax (I'm ballparking here, some goods obviously have higher tax rates)

So at 100K migrants, they would contribute $12 billion from those two revenue sources alone. That's ignoring other revenue streams and their actual economic productivity, and assuming they all don't earn more than a fairly low wage over their working lives. More than enough to offset deaths, any welfare or unemployment, etc.

And? This describes any myriad of government policies.

So you are not familiar with Venezuela's political situation...? It's not remotely similar to Mexico.

If only there was a way to allocate more resources and speed up this process. And if only the GOP had had decades to pass policies to this effect. I wonder...

It's very unclear what math you're doing. You noted over 30 years when I told you it was 12 billion over 3 years.

 

[avenue94]

It's very unclear what math you're doing. You noted over 30 years when I told you it was 12 billion over 3 years.

Yes...so the US as an economic actor is paying an upfront cost in exchange for a return on investment. That's how citizenship works. The math is quite easy. It's the same reason we pay for public schools, it's a return on investment in the country in the long run.

 

[kahiljabroni]

Yes...so the US as an economic actor is paying an upfront cost in exchange for a return on investment. That's how citizenship works. The math is quite easy. It's the same reason we pay for public schools, it's a return on investment in the country in the long run.

Lol...remind me not to hire you as my advisor. I'll put up 12 billion and in 30 years I'll get back.........12 billion?!

Not to mention the problem isn't going away. So that's 12 billion every 3 years in perpetuity. And that's with current numbers which are certain to increase.

Like I said... you're a clown.

 

[avenue94]

Lol...remind me not to hire you as my advisor. I'll put up 12 billion and in 30 years I'll get back.........12 billion?!

Do you not understand basic economics or the difference between economic productivity and taxation?

The federal government puts up $12 billion, and they get much more than that back. It's more like pay $12 billion and get several times that back. As I mentioned:
-I gave an extremely lowball estimate of income. Most folks are going to be making more than $50K and thus spending and paying more in taxes
-This also ignores the actual economic value they produce. AKA the actual labor they are performing that the country benefits from in goods and services.
-I'm also ignoring the simulative effect their spending would have on the country as a whole

You're arguing like someone who is ignorant of how the country works and doesn't realize that $12 billion is pocket change to the government. The government regularly blows far more and way less productive policies and "purchases."

We can make this simple. How much in taxes do you think 100K immigrants would contribute over their lifetimes? I gave you my reasoning, you've just deflected with ignorance.

 

[Hog-train]

Are you going to acknowledge how different Venezuela's political situation is to Mexico's?

At any rate, you may be correct, but each case still has to be reviewed. That's kind of how due process works.

Doesn't matter. The vast majority of asylum cases get rejected regardless of country. It's really hard to get granted asylum.

 

[kahiljabroni]

Do you not understand basic economics or the difference between economic productivity and taxation?

The federal government puts up $12 billion, and they get much more than that back. It's more like pay $12 billion and get several times that back. As I mentioned:
-I gave an extremely lowball estimate of income. Most folks are going to be making more than $50K and thus spending and paying more in taxes
-This also ignores the actual economic value they produce. AKA the actual labor they are performing that the country benefits from in goods and services.
-I'm also ignoring the simulative effect their spending would have on the country as a whole

You're arguing like someone who is ignorant of how the country works and doesn't realize that $12 billion is pocket change to the government. The government regularly blows far more and way less productive policies and "purchases."

We can make this simple. How much in taxes do you think 100K immigrants would contribute over their lifetimes? I gave you my reasoning, you've just deflected with ignorance.

Listen dope. The 12 billion is the estimated cost to nyc... not the federal government. These people are not citizens. They at best are paying sales tax on consumer goods. Rent is not taxed. Groceries are not taxed.

Take 100k "migrants". About 1/3 are probably children. So now we have 70k making 50k$ in your scenario. At best they are each spending 5k$ a year on items that have sales tax. At 8% that's 400$ per year. Multiply that by 70k and you get 28 million....times 3 years is 84 million.

So 84 million in sales tax vs 12 billion in the same time period in costs.

 

[avenue94]

Doesn't matter. The vast majority of asylum cases get rejected regardless of country. It's really hard to get granted asylum.

Again...due process. Not sure what you don't understand about that or why it would be so damaging for the US to abandon it and its treaty obligations.

The 12 billion is the estimated cost to nyc... not the federal government.

Which is in turn reimbursed by the federal government. NYC isn't on the hook for the bill, they bill the government who then pays for it. This is how many city and state programs work across the country.

At best they are each spending 5k$ a year on items that have sales tax. At 8% that's 400$ per year. Multiply that by 70k and you get 28 million....times 3 years is 84 million.

And the other 45K is being spent on...?

So 84 million in sales tax vs 12 billion in the same time period in costs.

Does payroll tax not exist in your world?

 

[kahiljabroni]

Again...due process. Not sure what you don't understand about that or why it would be so damaging for the US to abandon it and its treaty obligations.

Which is in turn reimbursed by the federal government. NYC isn't on the hook for the bill, they bill the government who then pays for it. This is how many city and state programs work across the country.

And the other 45K is being spent on...?

Does payroll tax not exist in your world?

You said they were a net gain. They are not regardless who pays the bill in the end. You're off by about a factor of 100

 

[Hog-train]

Again...due process. Not sure what you don't understand about that or why it would be so damaging for the US to abandon it and its treaty obligations.

You're were the one talking about Venezuela's political situation as if it will make any difference. Most will get rejected regardless.

Which is in turn reimbursed by the federal government. NYC isn't on the hook for the bill, they bill the government who then pays for it. This is how many city and state programs work across the country.

Not true at all that New York City hasn't spent local money on migrants. I live in NY. The Mayor has to beg the state for more state funds to help out.

And any federal funds New York receives is less funds that can be used on New York residents and infrastructure. I don't care about these recent migrants and want most of them deported.

Mayor Adams begs Albany for more migrant money

City Hall wants at least $2.8 billion from the state.

ny1.com

 

[avenue94]

You said they were a net gain. They are not regardless who pays the bill in the end. You're off by about a factor of 100

So immigrants aren't paying payroll tax in your world? I'm not sure you understand how taxation works.

Nor do you seem to understand how spending drives the economy or people producing goods and services for the country is very, very good. Particularly at a time when we have rather nasty labor shortages.

 

[avenue94]

You're were the one talking about Venezuela's political situation as if it will make any difference. Most will get rejected regardless.

Which again, the only way to find out is through the actual asylum process, which takes time. Do you not believe in due process and trials or something?

ot true at all that New York City hasn't spent local money on migrants. I live in NY. The Mayor has to beg the state for more state funds to help out.

Which again, is federally reimbursed. You're being dishonest to pretend otherwise or you don't understand how programs are funded.

And any federal funds New York receives is less funds that can be used on New York residents and infrastructure. I don't care about these recent migrants and want most of them deported.

No it is not. In what other way can NY use DHS funds?

And hey, that's perfectly fine. Everyone is entitled to oppose programs they want for purely arbitrary or personal/emotional reasons. Just don't try and dress it up as something else.

 

[Hog-train]

Which again, the only way to find out is through the actual asylum process, which takes time. Do you not believe in due process and trials or something?

I want the process to be expedited because most will be rejected anyway.

Which again, is federally reimbursed. You're being dishonest to pretend otherwise or you don't understand how programs are funded.

It's not all federally reimbursed. Our mayor has been begging for more money because the money received has fallen far short. City has been paying the difference.

Mayor Adams begs Albany for more migrant money

City Hall wants at least $2.8 billion from the state.

ny1.com

No it is not. In what other way can NY use DHS funds?

Depart of Homeless services or Homeland security. Don't know what DHS you're talking about.