Overwhelmed when wrestling

[winterbike]

Hey guys!

Background: Fresh purple belt here. My stand-up needs a bit of work. And by a bit I mean a lot. I'm 29, and I work as a physed teacher. I'm very active, and that limits the energy I can devote to BJJ. I train twice a week most weeks, three times on good weeks. I'm not looking to win ADCC, I simply want to get to brown belt in a few years with more than "messily pulling guard" as my only takedown option. I realistically won't add wrestling or judo specifically as it would take time away from BJJ. The wrestling club around here is also very competitive, and I can't afford to get hurt in a super intense training. Muay thai once a week to help on my striking abilities and clinch work might make more sense.

Usually when I train BJJ I have enough skill and knowledge to isolate what I need to work on in different positions. However, when I do anything standing up, I'm quickly overwhelmed by the options. It's all a big blur of grip fighting, moving the feet, over/under hooks, changing levels, shooting, defending, and a bunch of other stuff.

I've found that certain drills have helped me deal with the confusion before, and I'm looking for more. So far I have:
- Start from over/under, win if you get double underhooks
- Wrestling with sumo rules: you win if you push the opponent out or if he touches the ground with anything other than his feet (takes away a bunch of takedown options and helps a lot with pushing/pulling the opponent).

I'm looking for more, especially if they can be integrated quickly in a BJJ training session. Gi or no gi is cool.

Any ideas?

 

[jack36767]

I have to start this with a little pet peeve of mine. And I'm not saying this is you necessarily because you are working on it. But I really don't get the disconnect bjj guys have when they start wrestling about what being a white belt is like.

If everyone is being completely honest about what it was like as a white belt.. bring overwhelmed, not knowing or getting beat to every tie or grip. Getting smashed, then working through it, getting better, getting more technical, getting tougher. About how at the end of the day there were no short cuts.. none period and the mats don't lie..

IT'S NO DIFFERENT WHEN STARTING WRESTLING

Also, before any training tips or whatever. If there is an extremely good competitive wrestling club near by.. I am willing to bet money that you can either work with some younger kids or another bjj guy in practice. Or that if you go to the coach and talk to him he'd be willing to work with you somehow

Here's the thing though.. when you talk to him you need to understand something.. you are the white belt and he is the black belt. So you "telling" him what and how he should teach you is a bad idea and disrespectful. There's a difference between explaining your situation and asking to focus on the feet if possible.. and trying to tell him what he should be teaching you.. or worse (I've seen this a bunch of times) saying that you don't need to learn a basic skill or drill because "you" don't think it will apply to your bjj

When I can get to my computer I'll put together a good list of drills and things you can do. But the reason I'm harping on this is because you might have the means to get better or get a lot of these questions answered. If you're willing to swallow your pride, be respectful and not look for short cuts through struggling through that white belt phase

 

[winterbike]

I have to start this with a little pet peeve of mine. And I'm not saying this is you necessarily because you are working on it. But I really don't get the disconnect bjj guys have when they start wrestling about what being a white belt is like.

If everyone is being completely honest about what it was like as a white belt.. bring overwhelmed, not knowing or getting beat to every tie or grip. Getting smashed, then working through it, getting better, getting more technical, getting tougher. About how at the end of the day there were no short cuts.. none period and the mats don't lie..

IT'S NO DIFFERENT WHEN STARTING WRESTLING

Also, before any training tips or whatever. If there is an extremely good competitive wrestling club near by.. I am willing to bet money that you can either work with some younger kids or another bjj guy in practice. Or that if you go to the coach and talk to him he'd be willing to work with you somehow

Here's the thing though.. when you talk to him you need to understand something.. you are the white belt and he is the black belt. So you "telling" him what and how he should teach you is a bad idea and disrespectful. There's a difference between explaining your situation and asking to focus on the feet if possible.. and trying to tell him what he should be teaching you.. or worse (I've seen this a bunch of times) saying that you don't need to learn a basic skill or drill because "you" don't think it will apply to your bjj

When I can get to my computer I'll put together a good list of drills and things you can do. But the reason I'm harping on this is because you might have the means to get better or get a lot of these questions answered. If you're willing to swallow your pride, be respectful and not look for short cuts through struggling through that white belt phase

I get what you're saying! Realistically though, I don't have time/energy for another sport, I'm a bit chronically overtrained already.

I also know (from doing it when I teach) that using specific drills with modified rules helps a lot when you need the students to focus on specific aspects, or when you need to help them not get overwhelmed. Easy example is basketball. You don't expect the students to learn how to dribble the ball while playing a game on a full court. You show them solo tricks to practice by themselves. You build circuits and you make them play 1 on 1 or 2 on 2. Playing a regular game only comes later.

In wrestling I feel like a basketball noob being asked to play a game right now. "Dribble well, and think about your defensive strategy, and shoot the ball while aiming at the square on the board and aligning your dominant eye with the net, and don't make faults, and be patient, and...". I need something to focus on that's not the whole thing, and modified drills help a lot with that.

 

[Kenny from MD]

I'm confused. You want to learn to wrestle, by modifying some drills instead of learning wrestling?

 

[HtomSirveaux]

Been training for 5 years total, seriously working on my wrestling with the former hs/college wrestlers on my team for at least 3 of that. Singles, doubles, Russian tie, ankle picks, front headlock etc. After all that time and work, I can occasionally take down the less athletic white belts. Defensive wrestling is easier, I can squash people under a sprawl with a better percentage, but I still get taken down a LOT.

Wrestling is hard yo and it's super humbling. Get used to sucking bad

 

[LivingSnakeOil]

You won't stop being overwhelmed until you wrestle enough to gain the instinctual muscle memory to act without thinking. When people shoot, I don't think "oh, I better overhook/sprawl/spin off/whatever", I just do it. It wasn't because I modified drills or thought harder about the process, it's because I went and got ragdolled for months and eventually learned that opponent takedowns = sprawl. It's simple, you learn by doing.

 

[deadlizard]

The secret to wrestling is foot work and grip fighting. I find many similarities on the foot work with MT. So incorporate your MT footwork into your stand up.

Grip fighting is the same whether you're on the group or standing.

 

[CaSe]

I realistically won't add wrestling or judo specifically as it would take time away from BJJ.

It's all grappling and will improve your grappling skills. Mat time is mat time is mat time. If you want to have more takedown options you're going to have to add some wrestling and/or judo. You don't have to call that if you feel it's taking away from your bjj. lol Jesus Christ the lulz

 

[winterbike]

It's all grappling and will improve your grappling skills. Mat time is mat time is mat time. If you want to have more takedown options you're going to have to add some wrestling and/or judo. You don't have to call that if you feel it's taking away from your bjj. lol Jesus Christ the lulz

Jesus Christ back to you, I feel like I'm dealing with the retarded kids I was teaching to today. o_o

I want to improve my takedowns in BJJ. I can devote some of my time to training them during my BJJ practice. I do not give a shit about judo or wrestling as sports, as the rulesets don't interest me. There has to be something between "stay on the ground and never learn takedowns" and "go to a wrestling club 5 days a week or you'll never learn anything about takedowns". And that between can be reached by isolating some aspects and working on them one by one over a long period of time, before eventually putting them together. Since I don't know much yet about stand up grappling yet, I don't know many ways to do that, and I don't know all the aspects to isolate, hence this thread.

 

[CaSe]

The feeling is mutual.
Guess what....bjj takedowns ARE wrestling takedowns. Just protect yo neck fool. A hook single is a hook single, I don't care if the schedule says "BJJ" you're shooting on a leg you're wrasslin'. You sound like you know what you need to do...soooo get on the internets, look up some takedown drills and drill them.


I get the feeling this thread isn't really about takedowns at all.

 

[winterbike]

The feeling is mutual.
Guess what....bjj takedowns ARE wrestling takedowns. Just protect yo neck fool. A hook single is a hook single, I don't care if the schedule says "BJJ" you're shooting on a leg you're wrasslin'. You sound like you know what you need to do...soooo get on the internets, look up some takedown drills and drill them.


I get the feeling this thread isn't really about takedowns at all.

Any ideas on modified sparring rules that make it easier for noobs?

 

[PointyShinyBurn]

Hey guys, I get arm-locked and strangled a bunch when I roll BJJ. Don't really want to get any competent coaching though. Any recommendations on stuff I can do to teach it to myself?

 

[jack36767]

Oh and only teach me the things "I" might think apply to my wrestling or Judo.

TS you aren't going to get better at "takedowns" unless you stop assuming you know how it should be done. I've already Clearly explained to you how to approach the wrestling coach.

And you won't fucking get better at wrestling or "takedowns" unless you actually fucking train wrestling or "takedowns". While I could give you all the drills in the world, and isolate certain things. They won't help unless you actually are willing to fucking train.

This all amounts to you not liking getting your butt whooped and wanting shortcuts. Either shut up and be humble enough to learn and train when you can

Or look up youtube vids like you havd been and keep wondering why you are overwhelmed

 

[Rod1]

Jesus Christ back to you, I feel like I'm dealing with the retarded kids I was teaching to today. o_o

I want to improve my takedowns in BJJ. I can devote some of my time to training them during my BJJ practice. I do not give a shit about judo or wrestling as sports, as the rulesets don't interest me. There has to be something between "stay on the ground and never learn takedowns" and "go to a wrestling club 5 days a week or you'll never learn anything about takedowns". And that between can be reached by isolating some aspects and working on them one by one over a long period of time, before eventually putting them together. Since I don't know much yet about stand up grappling yet, I don't know many ways to do that, and I don't know all the aspects to isolate, hence this thread.

Sure you can do that but you dont get to learn how to takedown real wrestlers and defend against real wrestlers until you got and do it again them.

So while your BJJ wrestling will improve and you may be the king of the pond, you got to expect the fact that there will be times where someone who actually crosstrained will show you how much of a noob you actually are.

 

[Rod1]

Any ideas on modified sparring rules that make it easier for noobs?

There are plenty but most are useless since you arent sparring against people who know what they are doing.

 

[Deleted member 245586]

I guess the first question you should really ask yourself is how you got to purple belt without being proficient in several takedowns against other BJJ practioners? Maybe you really need a better instructor because white belts in the local children's class are practicing these takedowns from day #1...if you are limited on time practice one hand throwing technique, one hip throwing technique and one foot throwing technique. You get what you put in (people spend their entire grappling career mastering these).

Te-waza: hand throwing techinique - Moroto Gari (Double leg takedown)


Koshi-waza: hip throwing technique - O Goshi


Ashi-waza: foot throwing technique - Osoto Gari

 

[TheGZA]

 

[Which Doctor]

Hey guys, I get arm-locked and strangled a bunch when I roll BJJ. Don't really want to get any competent coaching though. Any recommendations on stuff I can do to teach it to myself?

 

[Which Doctor]

Hey guys!

Background: Fresh purple belt here. My stand-up needs a bit of work. And by a bit I mean a lot. I'm 29, and I work as a physed teacher. I'm very active, and that limits the energy I can devote to BJJ. I train twice a week most weeks, three times on good weeks. I'm not looking to win ADCC, I simply want to get to brown belt in a few years with more than "messily pulling guard" as my only takedown option. I realistically won't add wrestling or judo specifically as it would take time away from BJJ. The wrestling club around here is also very competitive, and I can't afford to get hurt in a super intense training. Muay thai once a week to help on my striking abilities and clinch work might make more sense.

Usually when I train BJJ I have enough skill and knowledge to isolate what I need to work on in different positions. However, when I do anything standing up, I'm quickly overwhelmed by the options. It's all a big blur of grip fighting, moving the feet, over/under hooks, changing levels, shooting, defending, and a bunch of other stuff.

I've found that certain drills have helped me deal with the confusion before, and I'm looking for more. So far I have:
- Start from over/under, win if you get double underhooks
- Wrestling with sumo rules: you win if you push the opponent out or if he touches the ground with anything other than his feet (takes away a bunch of takedown options and helps a lot with pushing/pulling the opponent).

I'm looking for more, especially if they can be integrated quickly in a BJJ training session. Gi or no gi is cool.

Any ideas?

 

[shunyata]

I get what you're saying! Realistically though, I don't have time/energy for another sport, I'm a bit chronically overtrained already.

I also know (from doing it when I teach) that using specific drills with modified rules helps a lot when you need the students to focus on specific aspects, or when you need to help them not get overwhelmed. Easy example is basketball. You don't expect the students to learn how to dribble the ball while playing a game on a full court. You show them solo tricks to practice by themselves. You build circuits and you make them play 1 on 1 or 2 on 2. Playing a regular game only comes later.

In wrestling I feel like a basketball noob being asked to play a game right now. "Dribble well, and think about your defensive strategy, and shoot the ball while aiming at the square on the board and aligning your dominant eye with the net, and don't make faults, and be patient, and...". I need something to focus on that's not the whole thing, and modified drills help a lot with that.

You're going about this all wrong.

You are thinking like a phys ed teacher.

This is not phys ed. This is something you do not grasp and do not have down right now.

You can't invent the drills for something you don't understand.

You need to train stand up grappling to get better at stand up grappling.

The drills will be taught to you along the way. In wrestling you'd drill takedowns. In judo you'd do endless uchikomi (drilling the entry and setup to a throw but stopping short on the execution). In addition you will need to actually take people down and be taken down hundreds and eventually thousands of times.

Will pummeling drills help with no gi grip fighting for hooks? Yeah of course but what good is double underhooks if you can't get a TD or throw from there?

You need to drill takedowns over and over and over again with a coach who knows takedowns. There is no way to avoid that and get better at standup grappling.