Polygamy Discussion Thread: More Americans Now Than Ever Say Polygamy Is Morally Acceptable

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"One immediate question invited by the majority’s position is whether States may retain the definition of marriage as a union of two people. Although the majority randomly inserts the adjective “two” in various places, it offers no reason at all why the two-person element of the core definition of marriage may be preserved while the man-woman element may not. Indeed, from the standpoint of history and tradition, a leap from opposite-sex marriage to same-sex marriage is much greater than one from a two-person union to plural unions, which have deep roots in some cultures around the world. If the majority is willing to take the big leap, it is hard to see how it can say no to the shorter one.

It is striking how much of the majority’s reasoning would apply with equal force to the claim of a fundamental right to plural marriage. If “[t]here is dignity in the bond between two men or two women who seek to marry and in their autonomy to make such profound choices,” why would there be any less dignity in the bond between three people who, in exercising their autonomy, seek to make the profound choice to marry? If a same-sex couple has the constitutional right to marry because their children would otherwise “suffer the stigma of knowing their families are somehow lesser,” why wouldn’t the same reasoning apply to a family of three or more persons raising children? If not having the opportunity to marry “serves to disrespect and subordinate” gay and lesbian couples, why wouldn’t the same “imposition of this disability,” serve to disrespect and subordinate people who find fulfillment in polyamorous relationships?"


Chief Justice John Roberts
Supreme Court of the United States.
---

Is polygamy next in the marriage debate?

By Sarah Pulliam Bailey | July 10, 2015

imrs.php

Self-styled Montana polygamist Nathan Collier poses with his wives Christine (R) and Vicki in this undated handout photo courtesy of Collier. Collier, 46, said his bid to make his marriage to his second wife “legitimate” was influenced by the U.S. Supreme Court decision last week that legalized same-sex marriages in the United States.


The Supreme Court’s decision in June that legalized same-sex marriage across the country has unleashed a renewed debate over polygamy, leaving some to wonder why marriage should be considered between just two persons.

The first legal challenge involving polygamy came last week after a man from Montana said the Supreme Court’s decision inspired him to apply for a marriage license so he can legally marry a second woman. Nathan Collier, who was featured on the reality television show “Sister Wives,” said he will sue the state if it denies him the right to enter into a plural marriage.

“It’s about marriage equality,” Collier told the Associated Press. “You can’t have this without polygamy.” A county civil litigator Kevin Gillen said he was reviewing Montana’s bigamy laws and expected to send a formal response to Collier by this week.

Chief Justice John G. Roberts’s dissenting opinion raised the question of whether the court’s rationale could be used to legalize plural marriage down the road.

“Although the majority randomly inserts the adjective ‘two’ in various places, it offers no reason at all why the two-person element of the core definition of marriage may be preserved while the man-woman element may not,” Roberts wrote. “Indeed, from the standpoint of history and tradition, a leap from opposite-sex marriage to same-sex marriage is much greater than one from a two-person union to plural unions, which have deep roots in some cultures around the world.”

Some are now using Roberts’s arguments to revisit the idea of legalized polygamy.

“It’s time to legalize polygamy,” writer Fredrik Deboer declared on the day of the Supreme Court’s decision, arguing that “the marriage equality movement has been curiously hostile to polygamy, and for a particularly unsatisfying reason: short-term political need.” His essay provoked a series of responses, including one from Brookings Institute’s Jonathan Rauch, who defends gay marriage but not polygamy. “It’s no coincidence that almost no liberal democracy allows polygamy,” Rauch wrote.

Jonathan Turley, a law professor at George Washington University, wrote that the rationale behind the Supreme Court’s decision could cause some to reconsider polyamorous families, in which more than two people are in a marriage-like union. In an opinion piece for The Washington Post, Turley pointed to what he described as Supreme Court Justice Anthony M. Kennedy’s finding of “a right to marriage based not on the status of the couples as homosexuals but rather on the right of everyone to the ‘dignity’ of marriage.”

“What about polyamorous families, who are less accepted by public opinion but are perhaps no less exemplary when it comes to, in Kennedy’s words on marriage, ‘the highest ideals of love, fidelity, devotion, sacrifice, and family’?” Turley wrote. “The justice does not specify.”

Kennedy wrote in the majority opinion that the discrimination against same-sex couples is unconstitutional because it’s linked to prejudice. On the other hand, Ilya Somin, a law professor at George Mason University School of Law, said it’s difficult to identify the sort of prejudice against polygamous families that Kennedy cited as motivating unconstitutional prohibitions against same-sex marriage.

“With polygamy, it’s much tougher to find a group that would be sympathetic to the public where this group would suffer greatly if we didn’t have polygamy available,” Somin said. “The road to success for polygamy will be a much tougher one than same-sex marriage.”

Polygamy’s few supporters argue the practice can’t be popularized yet because there isn’t a public face for it since the practice of getting into a plural marriage is illegal. Right now, the arguments are being made on a more academic or legal level than at a grassroots activism level.

Caught between those on both sides of a political spectrum who argue the state should allow consenting adults to marry whomever they please, polygamists have not seen much mainstream support historically. Support has increased from 5 percent in 2006 to 16 percent today, according to Gallup. The biggest one-year jump in public approval came in 2011, after TLC’s “Sister Wives” about a polygamist family first aired.

Although some Mormons practiced polygamy in the 19th century, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has banned the practice since 1890. Some Muslims in the United States are quietly in plural marriages.

A federal judge struck down parts of Utah’s anti-polygamy law in 2013, saying the law violated the “Sister Wives” family’s right to privacy and religious freedom. The state’s appeal of the ruling is pending in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit.

Because the majority opinion doesn’t address why same-sex marriage should be limited to two individuals, polygamy has returned to the spotlight, said Eugene Volokh, a professor at the University of California at Los Angeles’s school of law and the namesake blogger at The Volokh Conspiracy.

If the opinion argued that the opposite-sex-only marriage rule was simply irrational, one could argue that not recognizing polygamy would be rational: recognizing polygamy would impose extra burdens on the government because of the questions raised about insurance coverage, splitting property and other issues.

“I think the argument for requiring the government to recognize polygamous marriage isn’t ridiculous, but I doubt that the court will buy it,” Volokh said. “The policy arguments against polygamous marriages are pretty strong.”

Six Supreme Court decisions have upheld bans on polygamy and public support for polygamy remains low, so it’s unlikely the courts will change the laws anytime soon, said John Witte Jr. a law professor at Emory University who recently published “The Western Case for Monogamy over Polygamy.”

Opposition to polygamy has focused on the potential harm directed toward women and children, because studies have found correlations to abuse and other problems. But proponents historically saw plural marriage as a social welfare system, a defense against sexual abuse and possibly a means of increasing the opportunity for women to marry in times of war, Witte said. Today, arguments in favor of polygamy focus more on sexual autonomy and individual choice.

“Because the definition of marriage or the form of marriage has changed and we’re open to constitutional change, it’s inevitable for this to be contested,” Witte said. “I wouldn’t be surprised if the issue of polygamy gains momentum, but I would be surprised if the court’s opinion changes in my lifetime.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...her-polygamy-is-the-next-gay-marriage-debate/
 
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Yep. Polygamy should be granted as well as interfamily marriage (cousins, siblings, father/daughter)
Government shouldn't be limiting anyones marriage rights at this point.
 
Meh. I'm sure they will blame gays for this.
 
Since polygamous marriage is a traditional marriage structure from time immemorial throughout multiple cultures, I can only assume that conservatives will be on board as well.
 
Yep. Polygamy should be granted as well as interfamily marriage (cousins, siblings, father/daughter)
Government shouldn't be limiting anyones marriage rights at this point.

I shoul be allowed to have sex with a nintwendo charaxtwr as well
 
It's actually not time.


People haven't finished with this one, and on deck is elections.

The new elected president and Congress will have a particular issues they want to make priorities.
We the people will also most likely be focused on those issues.

So no, it's not time, or even close.
 
The whole gay marriage issue is based on "two consenting adults." So I really don't see how polygamists or incestuous couple are any different.
 
The whole gay marriage issue is based on "two consenting adults." So I really don't see how polygamists or incestuous couple are any different.

Go back and read the decision.
 
So... what exactly is wrong with polygamy and why should we be against it? I'm genuinely asking. Sure, I think it's pretty weird... but is it "wrong"? Is anyone getting hurt?

Fuck it. Legalize polygamy. Why not?

I can't believe how worked up some people get about other people's marriages. It's weird.
 
So... what exactly is wrong with polygamy and why should we be against it? I'm genuinely asking. Sure, I think it's pretty weird... but is it "wrong"? Is anyone getting hurt?

Fuck it. Legalize polygamy. Why not?

I can't believe how worked up some people get about other people's marriages. It's weird.

I agree. After this Supreme Court decision, who's to say what is moral or wrong? Polygamy and incest in my opinion are immoral and wrong but who am I to judge? Consenting adults right?
 
I agree. After this Supreme Court decision, who's to say what is moral or wrong? Polygamy and incest in my opinion are immoral and wrong but who am I to judge? Consenting adults right?
Probably the most moronic thing ever said in all those homo marriage threads. Congratulations.

Society decides what is right and wrong based on laws and public discourse. Unless you disagree with the process and think pedophiles should be free, I mean we shouldn't' give a fuck what the courts say, so lets release all the rapists and pedophiles because its only "man's law" and who are we to say what is right and wrong?
 
Many religions or their holy books advocate polygamy and don't advocate homosexuality so this is a big miss if someone is implying the two go hand in hand.
 
Yep. Polygamy should be granted as well as interfamily marriage (cousins, siblings, father/daughter)
Government shouldn't be limiting anyones marriage rights at this point.

Ah, incestuous marriage. Another time-honored traditional marriage structure. Practiced by such Western cultural heavyweights as Edgar Allan Poe, Charles Darwin, Albert Einstein...and Rudy Giuliani.
 
Probably the most moronic thing ever said in all those homo marriage threads. Congratulations.

Society decides what is right and wrong based on laws and public discourse. Unless you disagree with the process and think pedophiles should be free, I mean we shouldn't' give a fuck what the courts say, so lets release all the rapists and pedophiles because its only "man's law" and who are we to say what is right and wrong?

LOL what was moronic about what I said?

Society decides what is right and wrong based on laws and public discourse? There were state laws in many states that did not acknowledge gay marriage. The Supreme Court decided this particular case. In a 5-4 decision, it only took one judge to change the definition of marriage throughout the United States.

Society will never agree on what is right and what is wrong. The legal system could, on the other hand, make LAWS telling you what is right and what is wrong. As will mainstream media.

And for you to talk all that pedophilia and rape shit is just ridiculous. I mentioned consenting adults, not grown adults molesting little kids or raping people.
 
Ah, incestuous marriage. Another time-honored traditional marriage structure. Practiced by such Western cultural heavyweights as Edgar Allan Poe, Charles Darwin, Albert Einstein...and Rudy Giuliani.

Whoa, if this is true you just blew my mind a little
 
Society will never agree on what is right and what is wrong. The legal system could, on the other hand, make LAWS telling you what is right and what is wrong. As will mainstream media.

And for you to talk all that pedophilia and rape shit is just ridiculous. I mentioned consenting adults, not grown adults molesting little kids or raping people.
Well the legal system made LAWS telling you that raping people is wrong. But who are we to judge? How dare we judge? Its just "man's law" so how dare we enact our own laws and determine what is right and wrong? Its just man-made shit right?

Mainstream media also told us that being a conservative fundamentalist is right and being an atheist commie is wrong. Some decades ago. But that was perfectly acceptable wasn't it?
 
Well the legal system made LAWS telling you that raping people is wrong. But who are we to judge? How dare we judge? Its just "man's law" so how dare we enact our own laws and determine what is right and wrong? Its just man-made shit right?

Mainstream media also told us that being a conservative fundamentalist is right and being an atheist commie is wrong. Some decades ago. But that was perfectly acceptable wasn't it?

Do you know what "consenting adults" mean?
 
Well the legal system made LAWS telling you that raping people is wrong. But who are we to judge? How dare we judge? Its just "man's law" so how dare we enact our own laws and determine what is right and wrong? Its just man-made shit right?

Mainstream media also told us that being a conservative fundamentalist is right and being an atheist commie is wrong. Some decades ago. But that was perfectly acceptable wasn't it?

What are you getting at?

I never said that anything the media has said was acceptable or unacceptable either way. But since you mentioned the media's bias, I'm sure you could admit that they have a liberal, progressive bias in this era right?

And with that whole "man's law" stuff, I never mentioned it yet you keep doing so.
 
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