Prime BJ Penn or Prime Khabib, a better fighter and career?

[BooBoyMan]

he did if you think winning titles outside of your own weight class is more prestigious than staying in your lane.

I agree it's more prestigious, but BJ has won a single title fight outside of LW, I'm not sure why people act like he was a reigning double champ and defended both belts.

there's definitely an argument to be made that BJ achieved greater heights in terms of legacy.

An argument to be made, sure, but there's no argument to be made that BJ also achieved one of the lowest lows any fighter has, also in terms of legacy.

1 guy had a carefully constructed career that ended flawlessly, the other had losses but always rose up to fight and meet the challenges of his day.

It's like you're implying the only reason Khabib didn't lose is because he intentionally avoided difficult match-ups or something. Sure, pre-UFC Khabib was definitely matched-up with easier fights, but he was a 20 year old prospect, that's what you do to build up prospects. But it's laughable to imply he never challenged himself or went out of his comfort zone. He was met with tough stylistic match-ups as soon as he joined the UFC, was out for 2 years due to injuries and was considering retirement at one point. He fought only a few months after his dad died. The dude definitely had his fair share of struggles.

Again though, you're arguing about who you think the more 'legendary' or 'prestigious' fighter is, this is subjective as fuck, I really couldn't care less who thinks who is more legendary. But Khabib undoubtedly had the better career, you said it yourself, it ended flawlessly. Simply look at where they're both at now.

 

[dr. john lee]

Comparing fighters of different era's is the most futile thing in the world to do cause the sport has evolved, and continues to evolve -

Khabib destroys BJ. There is no Khabib without BJ.

The best way to compare is to find comparable style opponents (e.g. Hughes = Khabib, GSP = super Khabib) and piece it together. (On Khabib's list of opponents, I see no one comparable to Penn's style.)

Penn manhandled prime Hughes, and gave GSP some fits early in their first fight. It is fair to say he would have the same 1 1/2 round window he had vs. either of those two, of which he won 2, lost 3 (vs. those opponents).

 

[BooBoyMan]

Which him and Khabib are tied..

Qualifications of a Divisional GOAT

1) win a title in any division
2) defend that title more times then any previous champion against ranked opponents...


Both khabib and Bj Penn did this 3 times...therefore there tied...

Lol insane logic on display here. I guess Benson and Frankie are tied for LW GOAT as well!

O.P is talking about better career..

And hands down being a two division champion is better then being 1 division champion and given that there tied for defenses it only strengthens Penn case for a better career..

You're equating resume with career. I said it in an earlier post, if you think Penn has a better overall resume because he fought outside of LW, I don't care. It's up to personal opinion.

BJ has 14 losses and was forced to retire after he got knocked out by a drunk bum in a street fight. He does not have a better career than Khabib, stop being delusional. There are several other LW fighters who have had better careers than BJ.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Lol insane logic on display here. I guess Benson and Frankie are tied for LW GOAT as well!

You're equating resume with career. I said it in an earlier post, if you think Penn has a better overall resume because he fought outside of LW, I don't care. It's up to personal opinion.

BJ has 14 losses and was forced to retire after he got knocked out by a drunk bum in a street fight. He does not have a better career than Khabib, stop being delusional. There are several other LW fighters who have had better careers than BJ.

Funny u dont care...cuz that's exactly what makes his career better then khabibs lol.


Khabib won his belt agaisnt a #14 ranked Raging Al lmfao....

Both Frankie Edgar and Benson Henderson deserve that title as well easily lol ...they did amazing things in there primes at LW...and are bonified MMA legends respected by Fans and Fighters alike...


Khabib simply didnt do enough to say he had a better career...beating a shit ton of cans doesnt equate to Penns career...

And if Khabib fought some of guys Penn did at the WEIGHT he did...khabib wouldnt have his 0 loses either....Theres a reason he wanted GSP to cut below the 170lbs limit lmfao...embarassing..

Do you think Khabib beats...

Prime GSP at 170 lbs
Prime Machida at 190lbs plus
Prime.rory McDonald at 170lbs.
Prime Hughes at 170lbs..


Come on dude

 

[chardog]

Khabib destroys prime BJ penn any day. The modern LW division has twice the skill compared to back then.

Gaetchje is a white belt in terms of BJJ

 

[ThunderStruck]

Frankie vs BJ 1 was not a robbery.

 

[GSP_37]

BJ fought guys considered among the best. Khabib fought guys considered kinda sorta ok at the time.

 

[BooBoyMan]

Funny u dont care...cuz that's exactly what makes his career better then khabibs lol.

It really, really doesn't. Conor had a MUCH better career than Penn. Does he have a better resume than BJ? Fuck no. I think most would agree on that.

The rest of your post just falls apart from this simple point which seem to keep missing.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

It really, really doesn't. Conor had a MUCH better career than Penn. Does he have a better resume than BJ? Fuck no. I think most would agree on that.

The rest of your post just falls apart from this simple point which seem to keep missing.

RESUME IS A CATALOG OF YOUR CAREER ACCOMPLISHMENTS..

CONOR HAS ZERO TITLE DEFENSES LOL..

U dont know wtf ur talking about bud...

Let me guess..


But but but Conor made more money...

Lmfao.


Also LOL at avoiding the rest of post...
Did i hit a nerve

 

[BooBoyMan]

RESUME IS A CATALOG OF YOUR CAREER ACCOMPLISHMENTS..

CONOR HAS ZERO TITLE DEFENSES LOL..

U dont know wtf ur talking about bud...

You're braindead if you think Penn had a more successful career than Conor. Like actual room temperature IQ. Don't know what else to say.

Let me guess..


But but but Conor made more money...

Bingo, dumbass. That's what they're all in it for, money and renown, it's prizefighting.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

I agree it's more prestigious, but BJ has won a single title fight outside of LW, I'm not sure why people act like he was a reigning double champ and defended both belts.

An argument to be made, sure, but there's no argument to be made that BJ also achieved one of the lowest lows any fighter has, also in terms of legacy.



It's like you're implying the only reason Khabib didn't lose is because he intentionally avoided difficult match-ups or something. Sure, pre-UFC Khabib was definitely matched-up with easier fights, but he was a 20 year old prospect, that's what you do to build up prospects. But it's laughable to imply he never challenged himself or went out of his comfort zone. He was met with tough stylistic match-ups as soon as he joined the UFC, was out for 2 years due to injuries and was considering retirement at one point. He fought only a few months after his dad died. The dude definitely had his fair share of struggles.

Again though, you're arguing about who you think the more 'legendary' or 'prestigious' fighter is, this is subjective as fuck, I really couldn't care less who thinks who is more legendary. But Khabib undoubtedly had the better career, you said it yourself, it ended flawlessly. Simply look at where they're both at now.

it's like you said, subjective. even on who had the better career. because it depends on what you hold higher, never losing, or overcoming what seemed like insurmountable odds.

Khabib has never been the underdog. BJ Penn has, plenty of times. that's what i'm saying when i say it's hard to calculate who had the better career. because by the numbers it's Khabib by a landslide, but if you presented the facts of each career highlights to some casual, many people would think BJ's was a much more accomplished career.

he reached the lowest lows, but he also hit much higher highs.

i'm not implying that Khabib skipped matches when i say his career was carefully constructed. that's not at all what i'm saying. because that would imply i think Floyd Mayweather Jr ducked fights, and i do not think he did this. i do think that they picked certain match ups to help Khabib though. unlike BJ who was fighting guys everyone in the world was telling him not to. that's why i compared each to Floyd Mayweather Jr and Muhammad Ali. to me, both boxers and fighters had great careers, but to consider who is greater would be asking exactly what i said in my other post "is an undefeated record more important to you than overcoming insane odds?"

 

[Paolo Delutis]

You're braindead if you think Penn had a more successful career than Conor. Like actual room temperature IQ. Don't know what else to say.

Bingo, dumbass. That's what they're all in it for, money and renown, it's prizefighting.

...ur the dumbass...and a casual...

U probably didnt even watch MMA when Penn was around...

Penn had the more accomplished career then both guys...theres alot more to a career then the $ you make lol...but im not surprised new age financial.hipster casual fans get blinded by the money and miss the greatness lol ..

Its why Jake Paul can box how he does..because of people like you..

Ya goof

And you still havent answered me about Khabib vs the guys Penn went up in weight to face...guess i know your answer

 

[OGL]

Comparing across eras (in almost any sport), like "P4P," is a pointless exercise.

Almost everyone can agree (I hope) that almost no lightweights from prime-BJ's reign would be highly-ranked today. If you're Team Khabib, that's game-set-match, but one can only fight in their era, and perhaps BJ would have risen to higher level competition? Who knows?

Almost everyone can agree (I hope) that BJ took more "risks" in his prime (risk of losing at least, maybe not risk to legacy) by moving up in weight several times. For Team BJ, that seals the deal, but how much value does going like 2-6 at higher weight deserve? I have no idea. Would BJ have taken those risks if the business/$ was anything like it is today? It's an entirely different calculus now.

BJ's later severe decline should be irrelevant if we're really talking prime-for-prime, rather than "career." But if you can't ignore that, you then need to speculate about how well Khabib would do if he fought way past his prime too. Who knows! Would BJ have kept going like that if a more mainstream MMA could have provided him the same post-career opportunities it has/will for Khabib? Who knows! (probably)

I know I've wasted my own breath here as well, haha, but why can't we just agree that these are both legends of different times and different sports, really. BJ's mystique has grown over time for older fans, like is should for a deserving legend, and I expect Khabib's will too. I suspect many Khabib naysayers today will be telling noob fans years from now how magical/special Khabib was. Nostalgia is powerful.

**Tl;dr both were super compelling, badass motherfuckers who left us asking a lot of "what if's," and both will be underappreciated by newer fans down the road... and we'll be salty about it. But as the undisputed GOAT, Michael Jordan (not Lebron, Kareem, Magic, Russell, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Wilt, Timmy, etc.) says... "FUCK THEM KIDS!"

 

[Dbreiden83080]

BJ took on all comers... and lost to lots and lots of them.

And his willingness to fight above his weight class was as much about his refusal to diet, and train hard as it was about testing himself..

 

[BooBoyMan]

...ur the dumbass...and a casual...

U probably didnt even watch MMA when Penn was around...

You got me there lol. What's up with the Gladiator shit anyways?

theres alot more to a career then the $ you make lol

Nah, there really isn't. You won't be convinced by this no matter what, so I don't see the point of going on and on.

Its why Jake Paul can box how he does..because of people like you..

So sorry for being responsible for the rise of Jake Paul. Sincerest apologies.

And you still havent answered me about Khabib vs the guys Penn went up in weight to face...guess i know your answer

I wouldn't favor Khabib over any of the guys you mentioned except for Hughes (especially under USADA), which coincidentally, is the only guy out of those 4 that BJ beat.

By the way, when you keep editing your posts minutes after you make them, it makes you look mad lol. Take your time when you make a post.

 

[ThunderStruck]

Maybe read the O.P first..

Didnt say shit about LW goat...

Which him and Khabib are tied..

Qualifications of a Divisional GOAT

1) win a title in any division
2) defend that title more times then any previous champion against ranked opponents...


Both khabib and Bj Penn did this 3 times...therefore there tied...


O.P is talking about better career..

And hands down being a two division champion is better then being 1 division champion and given that there tied for defenses it only strengthens Penn case for a better career..


But but khabib is undefeated...ya with over half those wins being against 3w -40L cans in russia...with no wiki pages...

Unlike BJ Penn record who is literally a list of the whos who of MMA past and present and future...

Its not even close..


Recency bias is a motherfucker tho...Prime Motivated Penn boxes Khabibs ears off with that awkward stand up defense khabib tries and likely flying knees him into the WW division had they met prime for prime...GSP and Hughes much bigger grapplers then khabib and Penn and they struggled to take him down...

Nostalgia bias is a motherfucker as well.

 

[Foppa21]

The idea that BJ cleaned out the LW division in his time, isn't really true. A lot of the best LWs weren't in the UFC at the time.

He did go around chasing for some of them though. Including getting his family to promote the Gomi fight

 

[Paolo Delutis]

Nostalgia bias is a motherfucker as well.

It can be...

But not when it comes to someone like BJ Penn.. Prime Penn is and was as advertised one of the very best to ever compete in combat sports...dude won Mundials as an American....he went into brazils game and won there world championships...with like 3 years of training lol...it took 18 years for another american to win in his division..

This isnt some classic MMA never dies ...type thing..

We are talking proven legend and pioneer

 

[Paolo Delutis]

You got me there lol. What's up with the Gladiator shit anyways?

Nah, there really isn't. You won't be convinced by this no matter what, so I don't see the point of going on and on.

So sorry for being responsible for the rise of Jake Paul. Sincerest apologies.

I wouldn't favor Khabib over any of the guys you mentioned except for Hughes (especially under USADA), which coincidentally, is the only guy out of those 4 that BJ beat.

By the way, when you keep editing your posts minutes after you make them, it makes you look mad lol. Take your time when you make a post.

We r too far apart in years of watching MMA to really debate this...


But as to ur point about a career only being about money...remember this..

Money comes and goes...but what youve accomplished and your legacy will last forever...Money earned doesnt define your career whether its fighting or office work..Penns place among the GOATs is solidified...Conors is not... Most popular...most paid...sure..but accomplishment wise he simply isn't...and will be forgotten long before Bj Penn

 

[AldoStillGoat]

Bj penn