Question about NCAA.

[dsdoubled]

He's not full of shit. Just because there are good academic DI programs out there doesn't mean those were the programs recruiting him. And even if he could have gotten in, he might not have gotten a free ride there either. Not everyone is rich and can just afford to pay their way through an Ivy League college.

I mean who in their right mind wouldn't take a free ride to wrestle at Harvard if offered. That being said, how many of those offers are really going out?

He wrestled DII at a public university in state. He was a standout wrestler there placing high in the national tournament, All American, etc. Grades wise he did great too. Got to balance his life and plan for the long term by graduating with no debt. I don't think he regrets a thing.

Whod your buddy wrestle for? There has been some damn good D II wrestling teams over the years. Notre Dame College for example could probably beat the DI Teams in the area. Cerritos College in California is another great wrestling school and its a junior college.

 

[Te Huna Matata]

He's not full of shit. Just because there are good academic DI programs out there doesn't mean those were the programs recruiting him. And even if he could have gotten in, he might not have gotten a free ride there either. Not everyone is rich and can just afford to pay their way through an Ivy League college.

I mean who in their right mind wouldn't take a free ride to wrestle at Harvard if offered. That being said, how many of those offers are really going out?

He wrestled DII at a public university in state. He was a standout wrestler there placing high in the national tournament, All American, etc. Grades wise he did great too. Got to balance his life and plan for the long term by graduating with no debt. I don't think he regrets a thing.

Ivy's can't give out athletic scholarships. Just an FYI.

 

[Balto]

Whod your buddy wrestle for? There has been some damn good D II wrestling teams over the years. Notre Dame College for example could probably beat the DI Teams in the area. Cerritos College in California is another great wrestling school and its a junior college.

He wrestled for Pitt Johnstown.

Last summer I got to go live takedowns with the current 133 guy from Notre Dame. Holy shit did I get smoked. I couldn't believe how fast he was. Just absolutely owned me.

I probably had about 30 lbs on him and could not have mattered less. I had absolutely nothing for him.

 

[Kenny from MD]

dsdoubled- I can assure you I'm not very good relative to what I consider being good and what I've experienced as actually good. I only recently started playing top position/attempting to learn takedowns. The difference is that I work hard at understanding what I'm doing and have a decade of relevant grappling experience to lean on as a learning curve.

Te Huna Matata- You question the validity of what I'm saying and then go on to say that not all DI wrestlers are created equally, which is exactly what I was saying. I don't understand.

 

[dsdoubled]

He wrestled for Pitt Johnstown.

Last summer I got to go live takedowns with the current 133 guy from Notre Dame. Holy shit did I get smoked. I couldn't believe how fast he was. Just absolutely owned me.

I probably had about 30 lbs on him and could not have mattered less. I had absolutely nothing for him.

Pitt Johnstown Huh? Carlton Haselrig's school. One of the more interesting wrestling stories ive heard. He was just recently inducted into the USAW Hall Of Fame.

 

[dsdoubled]

Ivy's can't give out athletic scholarships. Just an FYI.

Are you serious! I didn't know that either. So how do they sway guys like Kyle Dake and Jesse Jantzen to come to school there and pay out the nose for it?

 

[Balto]

Ivy's can't give out athletic scholarships. Just an FYI.

Not sure what they do at each school, but even the DIII school I went to would find ways to work around that restriction for athletes they wanted. And we placed a pretty low emphasis on sports (us being terrible at athletics was a running joke) so wouldn't surprise me if bigger schools had even more tricks of their own.

Regardless I think you see the point. He felt DII was the best option he had and seems pretty satisfied with the choice he made back then.

 

[tec87]

Are you serious! I didn't know that either. So how do they sway guys like Kyle Dake and Jesse Jantzen to come to school there and pay out the nose for it?

In order to get into Ivy League schools for athletics, you still have to be exceptional at academics as well. So these schools have a lot of academic financial aid they can give out that makes up for the lack of athletic aid they can hand out. That doesn’t mean they are getting free rides by any means but academic aid definitely helps.

 

[dsdoubled]

In order to get into Ivy League schools for athletics, you still have to be exceptional at academics as well. So these schools have a lot of academic financial aid they can give out that makes up for the lack of athletic aid they can hand out. That doesn’t mean they are getting free rides by any means but academic aid definitely helps.

That makes sense. Guys like Dake and Jantzen could have gotten a full ride anywhere so I knew they wouldn't shell out 100s of thousands of dollars just to get a degree from an Ivy League school.

 

[Te Huna Matata]

dsdoubled- I can assure you I'm not very good relative to what I consider being good and what I've experienced as actually good. I only recently started playing top position/attempting to learn takedowns. The difference is that I work hard at understanding what I'm doing and have a decade of relevant grappling experience to lean on as a learning curve.

Te Huna Matata- You question the validity of what I'm saying and then go on to say that not all DI wrestlers are created equally, which is exactly what I was saying. I don't understand.

Because even lower tier D1 wrestlers aren't going to get thrown around by some Joe Schmo at their local BJJ school unless he's got a serious background in grappling or there is a massive size disparity.

He wrestled for Pitt Johnstown.

Last summer I got to go live takedowns with the current 133 guy from Notre Dame. Holy shit did I get smoked. I couldn't believe how fast he was. Just absolutely owned me.

I probably had about 30 lbs on him and could not have mattered less. I had absolutely nothing for him.

UPJ is one of the better D2 programs but their academic set up is a little screwy. UPJ (and all the other Pitt branches) is affiliated with Pitt in name only. Not all credits transfer if you start there and want to go to Pitt Main Campus for your last few years like most students intend. Conversely, if you start out at a Penn State branch campus and then transfer to University Park, all your credits will transfer unless it's a program that requires you to do all your credits at University Park. My ex-sister-in-law had that issue when she was trying to go from UPJ to Pitt.

Notre Dame (college in Ohio, not University in South Bend, IN) is pretty good with recruiting guys who are stud wrestlers but aren't cut out for D1 academics or otherwise "problem" athletes. Joey Davis could have gone to just about any D1 school on his wrestling talent but didn't have the academics to make it at a top level program.

 

[Balto]

Yeah I don't think he ever transferred to Pitt Main. Just stayed in Johnstown all four years.

There were two guys at the camp last year from Notre Dame. Both were studs and easily held their own with any D1 guys there.

 

[Kenny from MD]

A serious background in grappling... liiiike a brown belt in Jiu Jitsu posting on a Jiu Jitsu forum? Inconceivable.

 

[EGDM]

In order to get into Ivy League schools for athletics, you still have to be exceptional at academics as well.

There's a (perhaps) surprising variation in academic achievement in the Ivys. You can't be *bad*, but there's a pretty fair portion that is not "exceptional" and bring various diversity factors to the schools (cultural, economic ethnic, artistic, athletic ability, etc., never mind legacy admissions).

 

[PolishHeadlock]

Apparently Marcus LeVessuer had a similar situation. He was never totally direct on why he left DI to go DIII but I think academics were important to him and DI just had so many other demands like harder wrestling practices, bigger and more parties, etc. LeVessuer is an interesting case. He was an incredible HS wrestler, received a full ride to DI, went 10-0 in DI competition, left for a powerhouse DIII school, never lost a match, and during his DIII career he beat a ton of DI All Americans and national champs in freestyle tournaments. Over his career he has beat Ben Askren, Tyron Woodley, Keith Gavin, etc.

He was also a 2 sport athlete. Not sure how many D1 programs would be supportive of that.

 

[Grrrr]

Because even lower tier D1 wrestlers aren't going to get thrown around by some Joe Schmo at their local BJJ school unless he's got a serious background in grappling or there is a massive size disparity.



UPJ is one of the better D2 programs but their academic set up is a little screwy. UPJ (and all the other Pitt branches) is affiliated with Pitt in name only. Not all credits transfer if you start there and want to go to Pitt Main Campus for your last few years like most students intend. Conversely, if you start out at a Penn State branch campus and then transfer to University Park, all your credits will transfer unless it's a program that requires you to do all your credits at University Park. My ex-sister-in-law had that issue when she was trying to go from UPJ to Pitt.

Notre Dame (college in Ohio, not University in South Bend, IN) is pretty good with recruiting guys who are stud wrestlers but aren't cut out for D1 academics or otherwise "problem" athletes. Joey Davis could have gone to just about any D1 school on his wrestling talent but didn't have the academics to make it at a top level program.

Ive known a few guys that have wrestled at Notre Dame of Ohio. Most fit in the categories you already said...academic or other issues. Anyhow, a friend of mines kid was on the wrestling team the same time as Joey Davis. Ended up a 2x DII champion.

 

[dsdoubled]

He was also a 2 sport athlete. Not sure how many D1 programs would be supportive of that.

True. I know Mocco wrestled some at OK State but he might not have wrestled that year I can't remember the details.

 

[dsdoubled]

Ive known a few guys that have wrestled at Notre Dame of Ohio. Most fit in the categories you already said...academic or other issues. Anyhow, a friend of mines kid was on the wrestling team the same time as Joey Davis. Ended up a 2x DII champion.

One thing about Davis, Notre Dame's website has him listed as a 2x high school national champ but Im pretty certain he didn't win at Fargo or NHSCA Seniors.

Prior to NDC: A 2012 graduate of Sante Fe High School…California State champion at 160 pounds senior year..California State champions at 152 pounds junior year…two time national champion and high school All-American.

http://www.notredamefalcons.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5415

Any thoughts?

 

[catch.wrestler]

Division 1 schools are typically the largest universities, and compete in a minimum of 14 sports for both males and females. These schools often have world-class facilities, attract the top athletes in the country, and receive the most media attention.

Division 2 schools are smaller than D1 schools, and student athletes usually finance their education with a combination of athletic and educational scholarships.

Division 3 schools are the smallest of the NCAA institutions. D3 schools are not allowed to offer athletic scholarships.

I have to say, any college wrestler I've ever wrestled was good. It's not like high school wrestling. These guys have been wrestling all there lives.

 

[jack36767]

There's a (perhaps) surprising variation in academic achievement in the Ivys. You can't be *bad*, but there's a pretty fair portion that is not "exceptional" and bring various diversity factors to the schools (cultural, economic ethnic, artistic, athletic ability, etc., never mind legacy admissions).

Even with the “work arounds” which are nowhere as severe as some would have you believe.. it’s still an Ivy League academic workload with the full time job of being a DI wrestler trying to win an NCAA title against someone from Iowa, tOSU, PSU etc. Additionally none of the people I know or people who I know there major are taking any “fluff” majors. It’s almost always premed, business, accounting, engineering, chem etc.

Actually what’s very interesting is Robb Koll the coach at Cornell who has made them a top 10 sometimes top 5 team, likes those extra academic requirements and workload and maturity required to make as a DI wrestler at an Ivy League School even with “help”. He calls it the filter theory, because it filters out the kids that should be going to Notre Dame Ohio even if their talent is DI or the Chance Marstellars or Chris Philips before they even become an issue

Another somewhat related point that I’ve been thinking about, since my former coaches just got their first pac-12 champ at Cal-Poly is that until Fresno State re-started their program. The only DI programs left in California were Stanford and Cal Poly which have enormous academic workloads and are hard for non football/basketball athletes to gain acceptance into a good chunk of the programs. So a lot of California studs were stuck in a bind because even if they had solid grades (3.0, 3.2, 3.5 etc) and were/are good kids that wasn’t near up to task for Stanford or Cal Poly. So it was either go lower division or go faaaaarr away from home IF they got an offer. With Fresno State being brought back a lot more Cali kids will have an opportunity

 

[Grrrr]

He was also a 2 sport athlete. Not sure how many D1 programs would be supportive of that.

One thing about Davis, Notre Dame's website has him listed as a 2x high school national champ but Im pretty certain he didn't win at Fargo or NHSCA Seniors.

Prior to NDC: A 2012 graduate of Sante Fe High School…California State champion at 160 pounds senior year..California State champions at 152 pounds junior year…two time national champion and high school All-American.

http://www.notredamefalcons.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=5415

Any thoughts?

there are a ridiculous amount of tournaments for HS, MS, and ES that are called national events....