Question for U.K. peeps - immigration

Because they are. If they weren't exaggerating, I would be living in a waking nightmare. This is not an existential crisis deciding the fate of western civilization: as cool as it would be to live through such a thing, it's just not what's going down.

That doesn't mean there haven't been bad things that have happened in Europe as a direct result of the migrant crisis.

Well I don't think I've been exaggerating and I think what I have said is pretty accurate.

Kind of a self centered way of viewing things don't you think? You have to admit, it must be a nightmare for those being raped, targeted by criminals, those who have had their loved ones butchered, experienced or have had their loved ones shot up or ran over or blown up. It would not be cool to live through that.

It's also really demoralizing to experience hatred from foreigners and to see your town/city/country transformed because of the evil people in change. I don't know how anyone could want to go along with their twisted plans and support any of their ideas.
 
Well I don't think I've been exaggerating and I think what I have said is pretty accurate.

Kind of a self centered way of viewing things don't you think? You have to admit, it must be a nightmare for those being raped, targeted by criminals, those who have had their loved ones butchered, experienced or have had their loved ones shot up or ran over or blown up. It would not be cool to live through that.

It's also really demoralizing to experience hatred from foreigners and to see your town/city/country transformed because of the evil people in change. I don't know how anyone could want to go along with their twisted plans and support any of their ideas.

What do you want to do? Be specific.
 
I'm brown, born Muslim, grew up in a Muslim country (U.A.E), an Indian national, med school in India, moved in my late 20s to the UK (Nottingham), now doing a PhD, turned permanent resident this year (a proud moment for me). Applying for citizenship next year, so I don't count yet. It's clear the thrust of OP's question is to garner how many white Brits are afraid of the brown influx. So of course this is biased. But do with it what you will. It might be interesting.

Also, there's numbers out there that will tell you what things are really like, but the OP seems to want "feelings". I'll give you mine.

I go to London almost every month, often twice a month. It's my favorite city in the world. I go there for two reasons predominantly: 1) concerts and 2) to visit my brother who works there. He's an IT consultant, struggling to get on the permanent residence ladder.

OP's question has no simple answer. At a rock concert, I'm very often the only brown person there if it's a lesser known artist, and I still feel very much like a sore thumb at bigger events as well. Not afraid/apprehensive at all, but I do feel different. I certainly represent a miniscule, even negligible minority there. I've had to take some courses in the "rougher" parts of London to prepare for licensing exams, but never felt unsafe. I have relatives in Seven Sisters (Tottenham Spurs area), which is a bit rough, but your mileage may vary. I have no idea where these "no-go" zones are. I literally hadn't even heard the term used until Sherdog, and I've been an immigrant here since 2011. I've never been afraid for my life from an imminent terrorist attack, and I spend most of my fun time at movies and concerts.

Where I live (Nottingham), there's dodgy areas, sure, but you try to avoid them on the way to where you're going. I do the same when I visit an American city. Where areas are more diverse, both in London and Nottingham, I fucking love it. It's a million times more vibrant. I remember going to Brixton, London, in 2011 and loving how crazy it was, stalls and markets and whatnot. Now it's gentrified, which has its pluses but is no longer a place I'll go to with some buddies. In Nottingham, my (white) girlfriend, made it a point to cycle through the more diverse areas once every day to get some food - it's just more interesting: there's Polish, Caribbean, Indian and Pakistani, Lebanese, Arabic, pubs all in the same area.

As of now, there's a little bit of everything for someone like me. I'm a movie and music nut, so I tend to gravitate towards white spaces by virtue of having those interests. I tend to be the only brown guy in a lot of these situations, but to be honest, I actually find white strangers more awkward around me, than me around them (this DOES NOT happen in the US, white people just talk to me; clearly a cultural thing).

Among white people I see regularly, they tend to be friendly but not really curious about me or my background. Some of it is their not knowing whether they might say something wrong, but largely, at work for example, I genuinely think they couldn't give a shit where I'm from. A disinterest. This is fine, honestly. I tend to end up with white people who DO want to know things like that (like the girl I'm seeing) and are well-travelled etc., but for the love of Christ, how the hell is it that I, and say my brother, keep up so easily with the names of counties, travel within the country so much more, attend Christmas parties, sometimes two or three just for work, but most British people don't know that the name of my national language is Hindi and not Hindu/Indian? I understand it is for us to fit in but my countrymen have been coming here since the 70s in droves!

I think it is underestimated how much people like me love this country. We know so much about it because it's provided us freedoms and somehow stuck with Enlightenment values while our own countries can often feel foreign (when my brother or I are in an altercation in India, we provide a Hindu name and not a Muslim one, for fear of being beaten to our last breaths - no that is NOT overly dramatic, look up what's going on there with the BJP/Hindu Nationalism). We respect it, we bring our own values while embracing the freedoms the UK provides. How about y'all think of it the same way? Ask us where we're from, come to our homes, if you see me at a movie or a gig, strike up a chat. Know that we like being here loads, and love your ideas and freedoms. Largely you do get this, but good God has Brexit brought about the worst in those that don't.

The counterargument is: well, you're highly educated, you're the ones we WANT! You and your brother are always welcome, and have always been.

Really?

I will likely have my name on five publications in high impact journals by the end of my PhD, during which I simultaneously worked as the on-call doctor of the research facility. None of those studies would have run without me. It's clinical research in exercise, muscle physiology, diabetes, metabolic syndrome; some of those are crippling the NHS. Despite contributions of that sort, I spent close to 7,000 GBP of my own money on various visa applications, my permanent residence application, immigration lawyer's fees, etc. I switched contracts twice, a stress most couldn't grapple with if they knew that not having a visa in place each time would find them back in what the WR considers "shithole" India in a matter of weeks, despite my hard work, contributions to national insurance, and a wonderful new "immigration surcharge" being levied on skilled immigrants so they can use the NHS.

My brother is unable to get on the PR ladder despite having worked here for almost as long as I have. He is now going through the Canadian PR route as a backup while he puts in MBA applications, because staying in the UK on a work permit has not helped him build up any capital in terms of getting a PR. He might as well try getting into UCL/Oxford and see if he can get a scholarship, get educated some more. Yes, it can be that hard even if you're smart and sharp. And the Canadian PR process that supposedly just lets people in because they're brown? It takes nearly a year, sometimes more for someone as qualified as my brother to navigate. He's been at it for three months now. A lot of folks can't deal with the paperwork and will get a lawyer. Many simply won't try because they don't have the money. There's a substantial number of hoops to jump through, though it's still a million times better than the States. I think the problem with the US system is that it's not more like the Canadian one (righties going to love this).

You want people like us. You should be getting us in there, in reasonable numbers, with all the vetting that requires. What's happening at the minute in the US with skilled immigration is beyond idiotic. Instead, my ex-gf (Indian), who is an IT consultant in LA, has had two "Requests For Evidence" on her H1B this past year, for barely a decent reason. Guess what? She's looking at the Canadian PR as well.

The larger idea is: quit this nonsense. We're not trying to overrun your precious country. We're here because it's precious to us. When you go on about refugees and muslims, you do realise people like me have muslim parents who are observant and who we see once a year, sometimes because we've been too busy with research that will contribute to your well-being when you're older? That we know observant muslim doctors who likely were up for hours trying to get a cannula into your sick grandmother for the worst wages of any doctor, probably in the Western world?

Are there shitty elements? Of course. But not once have I met a radical Muslim in my time here. Like a lot of communities, they keep to themselves. I think they could work harder to think of themselves like you, sure. But that's happening as well, all the time.

We should be embracing a nationalism, but the melting pot kind. The kind that reflects the advances in the UK in light of your inclusiveness. I feel very included, and I guarantee your life has been made better by my predecessors. Why not focus on that instead of, "Have you noticed the brownies recently?"
 
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Just looking to hear from people who currently live in the UK.

1. Has recent immigration created any obstacles in your daily life?

2 Are immigrants being hired or are they on some type of assistance?

3. Are "no go" zones common? Is it even really a "no go zone" or more of a "I just don't want to go there" zone?

4. Did your political leaders make the right choice when thinking of the humanitarian aspect?


Thanks.

1. I would say mass immigration has killled the work libido of young British people. Jobs that teenagers used to do 30 years ago are now being done by adult immigrants.

2. Being hired? Yes. On some kind of assistance, probably.

3. I grew up in London, every year the area which you could go out and play got smaller. I've been a victim of mugging in the streets on a few occasions.

As an adult, I wouldn't walk the streets of London by myself at night Or let a woman walk by herself at night.

4. No, Tony Blair is either short-sighted or plain didn't give a f**k or both.
 


I hope the clowns who say there is no problem , encounter someone like this featured in the article..
 
I'm brown, born Muslim, grew up in a Muslim country (U.A.E), an Indian national, med school in India, moved in my late 20s to the UK (Nottingham), now doing a PhD, turned permanent resident this year (a proud moment for me). Applying for citizenship next year, so I don't count yet. It's clear the thrust of OP's question is to garner how many white Brits are afraid of the brown influx. So of course this is biased. But do with it what you will. It might be interesting.

Also, there's numbers out there that will tell you what things are really like, but the OP seems to want "feelings". I'll give you mine.

I go to London almost every month, often twice a month. It's my favorite city in the world. I go there for two reasons predominantly: 1) concerts and 2) to visit my brother who works there. He's an IT consultant, struggling to get on the permanent residence ladder.

OP's question has no simple answer. At a rock concert, I'm very often the only brown person there if it's a lesser known artist, and I still feel very much like a sore thumb at bigger events as well. Not afraid/apprehensive at all, but I do feel different. I certainly represent a miniscule, even negligible minority there. I've had to take some courses in the "rougher" parts of London to prepare for licensing exams, but never felt unsafe. I have relatives in Seven Sisters (Tottenham Spurs area), which is a bit rough, but your mileage may vary. I have no idea where these "no-go" zones are. I literally hadn't even heard the term used until Sherdog, and I've been an immigrant here since 2011. I've never been afraid for my life from an imminent terrorist attack, and I spend most of my fun time at movies and concerts.

Where I live (Nottingham), there's dodgy areas, sure, but you try to avoid them on the way to where you're going. I do the same when I visit an American city. Where areas are more diverse, both in London and Nottingham, I fucking love it. It's a million times more vibrant. I remember going to Brixton, London, in 2011 and loving how crazy it was, stalls and markets and whatnot. Now it's gentrified, which has its pluses but is no longer a place I'll go to with some buddies. In Nottingham, my (white) girlfriend, made it a point to cycle through the more diverse areas once every day to get some food - it's just more interesting: there's Polish, Caribbean, Indian and Pakistani, Lebanese, Arabic, pubs all in the same area.

As of now, there's a little bit of everything for someone like me. I'm a movie and music nut, so I tend to gravitate towards white spaces by virtue of having those interests. I tend to be the only brown guy in a lot of these situations, but to be honest, I actually find white strangers more awkward around me, than me around them (this DOES NOT happen in the US, white people just talk to me; clearly a cultural thing).

Among white people I see regularly, they tend to be friendly but not really curious about me or my background. Some of it is their not knowing whether they might say something wrong, but largely, at work for example, I genuinely think they couldn't give a shit where I'm from. A disinterest. This is fine, honestly. I tend to end up with white people who DO want to know things like that (like the girl I'm seeing) and are well-travelled etc., but for the love of Christ, how the hell is it that I, and say my brother, keep up so easily with the names of counties, travel within the country so much more, attend Christmas parties, sometimes two or three just for work, but most British people don't know that the name of my national language is Hindi and not Hindu/Indian? I understand it is for us to fit in but my countrymen have been coming here since the 70s in droves!

I think it is underestimated how much people like me love this country. We know so much about it because it's provided us freedoms and somehow stuck with Enlightenment values while our own countries can often feel foreign (when my brother or I are in an altercation in India, we provide a Hindu name and not a Muslim one, for fear of being beaten to our last breaths - no that is NOT overly dramatic, look up what's going on there with the BJP/Hindu Nationalism). We respect it, we bring our own values while embracing the freedoms the UK provides. How about y'all think of it the same way? Ask us where we're from, come to our homes, if you see me at a movie or a gig, strike up a chat. Know that we like being here loads, and love your ideas and freedoms. Largely you do get this, but good God has Brexit brought about the worst in those that don't.

The counterargument is: well, you're highly educated, you're the ones we WANT! You and your brother are always welcome, and have always been.

Really?

I will likely have my name on five publications in high impact journals by the end of my PhD, during which I simultaneously worked as the on-call doctor of the research facility. None of those studies would have run without me. It's clinical research in exercise, muscle physiology, diabetes, metabolic syndrome; some of those are crippling the NHS. Despite contributions of that sort, I spent close to 7,000 GBP of my own money on various visa applications, my permanent residence application, immigration lawyer's fees, etc. I switched contracts twice, a stress most couldn't grapple with if they knew that not having a visa in place each time would find them back in what the WR considers "shithole" India in a matter of weeks, despite my hard work, contributions to national insurance, and a wonderful new "immigration surcharge" being levied on skilled immigrants so they can use the NHS.

My brother is unable to get on the PR ladder despite having worked here for almost as long as I have. He is now going through the Canadian PR route as a backup while he puts in MBA applications, because staying in the UK on a work permit has not helped him build up any capital in terms of getting a PR. He might as well try getting into UCL/Oxford and see if he can get a scholarship, get educated some more. Yes, it can be that hard even if you're smart and sharp. And the Canadian PR process that supposedly just lets people in because they're brown? It takes nearly a year, sometimes more for someone as qualified as my brother to navigate. He's been at it for three months now. A lot of folks can't deal with the paperwork and will get a lawyer. Many simply won't try because they don't have the money. There's a substantial number of hoops to jump through, though it's still a million times better than the States. I think the problem with the US system is that it's not more like the Canadian one (righties going to love this).

You want people like us. You should be getting us in there, in reasonable numbers, with all the vetting that requires. What's happening at the minute in the US with skilled immigration is beyond idiotic. Instead, my ex-gf (Indian), who is an IT consultant in LA, has had two "Requests For Evidence" on her H1B this past year, for barely a decent reason. Guess what? She's looking at the Canadian PR as well.

The larger idea is: quit this nonsense. We're not trying to overrun your precious country. We're here because it's precious to us. When you go on about refugees and muslims, you do realise people like me have muslim parents who are observant and who we see once a year, sometimes because we've been too busy with research that will contribute to your well-being when you're older? That we know observant muslim doctors who likely were up for hours trying to get a cannula into your sick grandmother for the worst wages of any doctor, probably in the Western world?

Are there shitty elements? Of course. But not once have I met a radical Muslim in my time here. Like a lot of communities, they keep to themselves. I think they could work harder to think of themselves like you, sure. But that's happening as well, all the time.

We should be embracing a nationalism, but the melting pot kind. The kind that reflects the advances in the UK in light of your inclusiveness. I feel very included, and I guarantee your life has been made better by my predecessors. Why not focus on that instead of, "Have you noticed the brownies recently?"
Nice post, but I have a few bones to pick. As follows -

"We respect it, we bring our own values while embracing the freedoms the UK provides." You say this, but at the same time vocalize how you feel a stranger in the old country. Guess why? Because of the value systems in that place. Value systems dictate societal norms.

Which leads me to my other bone of contention.

You say "But not once have I met a radical Muslim in my time here." to which I say yes, yes, you have. Look at the Pew polling numbers of UK muslims. Sure, the folks who think homosexuality should be illegal, and same with apostasy, or thought 9/11 was justified might not be running people over on bridges, or shooting up concerts, but those are radical beliefs. At the minimum 30% of UK muslims have beliefs that are antithetical to the "Enlightenment values" you hold in high regard. You obviously do not, and neither do the majority of Muslims, but 1 in 3 is a problematic number.

Quranic schools, Pakistani grooming gangs, sharia law courts and anti-west preachers in mosques are a reality in the UK. As a man of science and someone who is pro western values what do you think of that?
 
1. Has recent immigration created any obstacles in your daily life?

No.

2 Are immigrants being hired or are they on some type of assistance?

From what I can tell, massive amounts of them are working. See billions of brown people and eastern europeans on the tube when I'm commuting to work, who are all doing the same.

3. Are "no go" zones common? Is it even really a "no go zone" or more of a "I just don't want to go there" zone?

Never encountered any no-go zones in London. There are plenty of shit run down places, but that applies to pretty much every city in the world.

4. Did your political leaders make the right choice when thinking of the humanitarian aspect?

No. They declared war on middle eastern countries and support terrorists in Syria and dictators in Saudi Arabia. If they genuinely gave a fuck about the humanitarian aspect, they wouldn't continue to do things like that.
 
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