Reason for Gracie Jiu Jitsu Certified Training Center Success?

[JustSomeGuy]

Serious question:

If someone wants to train jiu jitsu with awareness of strikes, why wouldn't you go train at a legitimate mma gym?

Answer is the differences in the end goal.

MMA gyms train for MMA fights with MMA rules using MMA gloves with MMA time limits and most importantly, MMA weight classes. No reason to train techniques for someone heavier than you because when you fight, they will weigh the same as you do, be about as strong as you with roughly the same level of athleticism. The weak are weeded out and the savages move on to compete. Also, some portion of MMA training is going to focus solely on the concept of standing in the pocket with someone your own size and trading punches with them instead of grappling.

Gracie Combatives is trying to give the people who are likely to be weeded out of sport BJJ and MMA programs a handful of techniques to keep them alive if someone (with no BJJ training) that is bigger/stronger/faster attacks them on the street. There is no portion of the GC training where folks stand in the pocket and trade punches with someone in lieu of grappling. Doing that with someone that is bigger/stronger/faster is a recipe for a bad day regardless of your training, so no time is wasted on it. Instead one of the core principles of Gracie Combatives is to either be all the way out of striking range, to avoid the fight all together, or all the way into clinching range to take them down and use technique to manage their size/strength advantage.

MMA training is to make savages competition ready.

To paraphrase Helio, Gracie Combatives is for the protection of the individual: the older man, the weak, the child, the lady, and the young woman; anyone who doesn’t have the physical attributes to defend themselves.

 

[Daz2300]

That's how we train when we in half guard,. Only stay in the position 'briefly' then transition quickly into a safer position like Maia does. Take the back, stand back up, or facekick. We don't camp out there and lock in the half guard and try to turn it into an attacking position or stall like you could in a tournament. If you allow strikes you don't want to get stuck in half guard or stay there long. Maia is never in half guard for a long time. He quickly transfer out.

Played that way it's actually really difficult for the top guy to strike without giving up the underhook if you stick on the gloves and drill it. If you're really just focused on coming up the second there is any space to get one you might take a few shots but you'll find it's very hard for them to keep you down.

It's one of those situations where there is a very noticeable difference with strikes and he can't really pin you, stay heavy looking for a pass and also manage some GnP if you're not thinking of it as 'playing' HG.

 

[lechien]

I was told of the CTC policy and standards by the purple to be a certified CTC location and I was impressed with the rigid and high standard of what the purple would have to do to open a location. Criminal background check, certain mat size, a passing rate of 90 or 95 to get a blue belt or a stripe or something. They definitely had a curriculum in place and if this purple didn't know his stuff he wouldn't get improved. He will have to go to Torrance headquarters to get evaluated/certification on whatever else as well. There are also pricey fees too to get everything started. He is going to have to make upfront $$$ investment. So more or less guys who aren't genuine or sketchy gets weeded out in the process.

The standards of other BJJ academy I trained at with no curriculum in place was what? Smash, Smash, Smash and never tap to lower belt was how you would rank up.

The system you described sounds like they are selling affiliation to people that have lot of money and they don't want to train at their local bjj gym because they don't like getting humbled and earn their rank the traditional way: "smash".
Not surprising at all. It has been like that for over twenty years.

 

[2008]

The system you described sounds like they are selling affiliation to people that have lot of money and they don't want to train at their local bjj gym because they don't like getting humbled and earn their rank the traditional way: "smash".
Not surprising at all. It has been like that for over twenty years.

Aren't you a BB with your own academy somewhere in Australia or New Zealand?

 

[JustSomeGuy]

they don't want to train at their local bjj gym because they don't like getting humbled and earn their rank the traditional way: "smash".

The whole earn rank by competing and getting injured concept is not traditional. Check some history and see how they were giving belts out before the art came to the US.

Rorion's first US student got his blue belt after 36 half hour private lessons. As did others in the original Gracie Academy. And that's where this whole thing started in the US.

I've heard the Gracie's say that they are partly to blame for the "bleed for your blue" BS that sprung up in the US in the 90's when they went to large group classes and didn't have a structured way to teach large numbers.

I understand that many dudebros like to feel that BJJ is not for everyone and only the toughest should withstand the punishment to learn it, but that's not how it started and not how every school is doing it today.

 

[lechien]

The whole earn rank by competing and getting injured concept is not traditional. Check some history and see how they were giving belts out before the art came to the US.

Rorion's first US student got his blue belt after 36 half hour private lessons. As did others in the original Gracie Academy. And that's where this whole thing started in the US.

I've heard the Gracie's say that they are partly to blame for the "bleed for your blue" BS that sprung up in the US in the 90's when they went to large group classes and didn't have a structured way to teach large numbers.

I understand that many dudebros like to feel that BJJ is not for everyone and only the toughest should withstand the punishment to learn it, but that's not how it started and not how every school is doing it today.

Everyone knows that the original Gracie academy was based on private classes to rich business men that learn and drill the 70 self defense techniques and got promoted to blue belt.
Carlson gracie was supposed to be the first Gracie to start group classes and did not hold on the techniques that otherwise would not to taught to non Gracie.
Rorion and his sons are just replicating the old business online and via affiliation.

 

[lechien]

Aren't you a BB with your own academy somewhere in Australia or New Zealand?

Yep.

 

[2008]

Everyone knows that the original Gracie academy was based on private classes to rich business men that learn and drill the 70 self defense techniques and got promoted to blue belt.
Carlson gracie was supposed to be the first Gracie to start group classes and did not hold on the techniques that otherwise would not to taught to non Gracie.
Rorion and his sons are just replicating the old business online and via affiliation.

So basically another:
Carlos vs. Helio thread, okay.

 

[2008]

Yep.

Not impressed

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Everyone knows that the original Gracie academy was based on private classes to rich business men that learn and drill the 70 self defense techniques and got promoted to blue belt. Rorion and his sons are just replicating the old business online and via affiliation.

Who are we to argue with the founder and his descendants on how their art should be taught?

If that's how they do it, that's fine with me.

 

[lechien]

Who are we to argue with the founder and his descendants on how their art should be taught?

If that's how they do it, that's fine with me.

I am not arguing.
Like I said, it is really up to what people want.
36 privates to a GJJ blue belt.
If you are ok with that. Then so be it.
Same as you think it is normal to get promoted online and run a Gracie CTC.

Also, We will bjj gym with a curriculum.
It is something unique to GJJ.
Also, we will find bjj gyms that have a majority of hobbiest and a handful of competitors.
The gym lives on the income of the hobbiest.

 

[lechien]

Not impressed

It does not really matter.
I could be a white belt four stripes.
My opinion of Renee Gracie promoting people to blue belt online would remain the same.
He'll, we even had a bunch of guys that mimic the Gracie CTC program and studied online. After a while, they flew Renee in and he promoted the leader to blue after a week. The. Renee disclosed how much he wanted for running the program.
Nothing happened after that.

I heard they disbanded because they were not interested in the "sport" bjj available around.

One of then had a Gracie academy tattoo.

 

[2008]

It does not really matter.
I could be a white belt four stripes.
My opinion of Renee Gracie promoting people to blue belt online would remain the same.
He'll, we even had a bunch of guys that mimic the Gracie CTC program and studied online. After a while, they flew Renee in and he promoted the leader to blue after a week. The. Renee disclosed how much he wanted for running the program.
Nothing happened after that.

I heard they disbanded because they were not interested in the "sport" bjj available around.

One of then had a Gracie academy tattoo.

Oh OK. I get it now. You wanted to open a Gracie CTC at one point in your life but probably got rejected for whatever reason and now you have an axe to grind with them. You are pretty informative about Gracie CTC standards for someone who doesn't like their style or methods. The Renee shot only validates my educated guess. What happened? You failed a background check or got caught buying your BB from Amazon New Zealand or something? LMAO

Does your students know you spend more time on here talking to strangers than actually training them??? Again, not impressed.

 

[dimmyfinster]

I am not arguing.
Like I said, it is really up to what people want.
36 privates to a GJJ blue belt.
If you are ok with that. Then so be it.
Same as you think it is normal to get promoted online and run a Gracie CTC.

Also, We will bjj gym with a curriculum.
It is something unique to GJJ.
Also, we will find bjj gyms that have a majority of hobbiest and a handful of competitors.
The gym lives on the income of the hobbiest.

These two posters joined around the same time. The only posts they have are about how great gracie combatives are.

Are they real accounts or no?

Can't say 100% for sure, but they're literally the first accounts I am putting on ignore. Not even 'themaster' has gone on ignore.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

36 privates to a GJJ blue belt.
Same as you think it is normal to get promoted online and run a Gracie CTC.
If you are ok with that. Then so be it.

I guess if either of those were an option today via Gracie HQ, I'd look into it.
But from what I've seen, they are not.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

These two posters joined around the same time. The only posts they have are about how great gracie combatives are. Are they real accounts or no? Can't say 100% for sure, but they're literally the first accounts I am putting on ignore. Not even 'themaster' has gone on ignore.

Referring to me? I've been on this forum literally a decade longer than you have.

 

[2008]

These two posters joined around the same time. The only posts they have are about how great gracie combatives are.

Are they real accounts or no?

Can't say 100% for sure, but they're literally the first accounts I am putting on ignore. Not even 'themaster' has gone on ignore.

My dude. I joined this forum in 2008, hence my screen name. Look at my post history, in fact, I stopped reading/posting on sherdog for the past several years only to come back and check it out again with the same old heads talking about the same discussions over and over again. I moved on at the time...thanks, again, for reminding me why I moved on.

Peace

 

[thugpoet]

Only reading the first page is like to chime in.

My coach was a bb equivalent who was a blue for a long time before we closed the doors he was a purple. He always felt that not having a bb in the gym took his credibility away.

It's sad because he was legit good at bjj.

I have followed suit except imna career white belt. Been teaching for about 8 years on and off been doing no gi since i was 18 ( 33 now).

While I don't own a gym being a teacher it's an up hill battle trying to be prove that you know your stuff without a black belt.

I've also seen two gyms go belly up because they tried to affiliate with another gym , paid the fees and then never get any black belts to the gym. Both where bad deals. I like the idea of certificated training centers which imo is way better than what we tried to do.

 

[Esile]

Serious question:

If someone wants to train jiu jitsu with awareness of strikes, why wouldn't you go train at a legitimate mma gym?

In a MMA gym they prepare you for fighting trained people in your same weight class.
That's not the same as preparig yourself for dealing with an untrained aggressor twice you size, the opponent's most common behaviours will be different and the number of the techniques that will work against a much bigger and stronger person is also much more streamlined.

For example you can train at an average MMA gym for a few years and still don't know the most effective counters if a guy twice your size put you in a schoolyard headlock since it's something you may have never encountered in training since trained people usually don't do it.
Not to mention how to deal with stomps, soccer kicks, headbutts and other stuff that's illegal in MMA but it's addressed in Gracie's self defense courses.

In my opinion the ideal way to prepare yourself for unarmed combat is to pass Gracie Combatives first, then switch to an MMA gym so you can become a well-rounded fighter who is proficient at striking too.

 

[shunyata]

In a MMA gym they prepare you for fighting trained people in your same weight class.
That's not the same as preparig yourself for dealing with an untrained aggressor twice you size, the opponent's most common behaviours will be different and the number of the techniques that will work against a much bigger and stronger person is also much more streamlined.

For example you can train at an average MMA gym for a few years and still don't know the most effective counters if a guy twice your size put you in a schoolyard headlock since it's something you may have never encountered in training since trained people usually don't do it.
Not to mention how to deal with stomps, soccer kicks, headbutts and other stuff that's illegal in MMA but it's addressed in Gracie's self defense courses.

In my opinion the ideal way to prepare yourself for unarmed combat is to pass Gracie Combatives first, then switch to an MMA gym so you can become a well-rounded fighter who is proficient at striking too.

I keep hearing this "weight class" thing, but every mma gym I'm ever trained at had a wide variety of sparring partners for the hobbyists and aspiring amateur fighters. It was insanely common to drill and spar with weight class mismatches.

I've trained with people from 110 lbs to 400 lbs in mma gyms.