International Russia/Ukraine Megathread V8

[Bojka]

Sure.
DeUkrainization. Total. Fake state and fake nation.

Also ofc they are scared that Moscow was founded by ukrainian king and was under Kiev.
Like with Georgia: russians were Stalin's puppets, puppets for georgian & gyp*y uncle....
Therefore nationalists does knows REAL historical roots and HATE and might devote century to destroy their master's land...

Which Ukrainian king are you claiming founded Moscow? lol.

 

[SandisLL]

The Chief of the Russian Defence Staff requested a telephone call with the Chief of the British Defence Staff. The Russian repeated the claims that the Ukraine were about to detonate a Dirty Bomb in a Russian-controlled area. The British CDS rejected the claim outright and reiterated Britain's support for Ukraine.

Looks that de facto this means that Russia doesn't have functional warhead today.

So might use dirty bomb and then yell..

West should do open air test and asap.
Like in 1960 ies....
Other choice will be worse..

 

[Err]

Which Ukrainian king are you claiming founded Moscow? lol.

Probably this dude.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Dolgorukiy

 

[Bojka]

Probably this dude.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Dolgorukiy

His mom was apparently from Wessex, England. He was from the Rurikid dynasty and only lived in Kiev because that's where the capital was. His dad also apparently had Byzantine (and probably other) blood. Calling him Ukrainian is a stretch. Ukrainian didn't even exist until the Ukrainian language evolved anyway. And population movements after Kievan Rus (including mass migrations from Russia) largely formed the Ukrainian ethnogenesis.

 

[A Lurker]

The Chief of the Russian Defence Staff requested a telephone call with the Chief of the British Defence Staff. The Russian repeated the claims that the Ukraine were about to detonate a Dirty Bomb in a Russian-controlled area. The British CDS rejected the claim outright and reiterated Britain's support for Ukraine.

Well it was lovely knowing you all.

 

[A Lurker]

Looks that de facto this means that Russia doesn't have functional warhead today.

So might use dirty bomb and then yell..

West should do open air test and asap.
Like in 1960 ies....
Other choice will be worse..

i agree

 

[SandisLL]

His mom was apparently from Wessex, England. He was from the Rurikid dynasty and only lived in Kiev because that's where the capital was. They also apparently had Byzantine blood. Calling them Ukrainian is a stretch. Ukrainian didn't even exist until the Ukrainian language evolved anyway. And population movements after Kievan Rus (including mass migrations from Russia) largely formed the Ukrainian ethnogenesis.

First was stuff before this.
And historically part of russians were even slaves of the Great Golden Orda.
Big " historical rights " for sure.

Babushkas of slaves will be happy and even maybe claim how cool was georgian gy**y Stalin with his happy slaves called " russian speakers ".

 

[Rational Poster]

Which Ukrainian king are you claiming founded Moscow? lol.

Moscow the settlement was started by Rurikid princes sometime during the 12th century. Their seat of power was Kiev.

Yuri Dolgorukiy is credited as the founder of Moscow, who was a younger son of the Kievan Rus leader at the time, somewhere between 1140-1150.

So Ukrainian Prince would probably be a more accurate descriptor.

 

[A Lurker]

I think we should move the Sherdog war room awards forwards a couple of months

 

[Bojka]

Moscow the settlement was started by Rurikid princes sometime during the 12th century. Their seat of power was Kiev.

Yuri Dolgorukiy is credited as the founder of Moscow, who was a younger son of the Kievan Rus leader at the time, somewhere between 1140-1150.

So Ukrainian Prince would probably be a more accurate descriptor.

And, as I said above, this person could hardly be considered slavic, let alone Ukrainian. He was half English, part Byzantine (Greek/Turkish), and probably other things, including distant Norse ancestry.

 

[Rational Poster]

And, as I said above, this person could hardly be considered slavic, let alone Ukrainian. He was half English, part Byzantine (Greek/Turkish), and probably other things, including distant Norse ancestry.

Yeah but like, he was a legally crowned prince from an area we commonly refer to as the capitol of Ukraine.

The blood relations of any royal dynasty from the period is going to be incredibly intermixed like this.

 

[Denter]

And, as I said above, this person could hardly be considered slavic, let alone Ukrainian. He was half English, part Byzantine (Greek/Turkish), and probably other things, including distant Norse ancestry.

There was really no "Russia" or "Ukraine" yet at that time anyway.

 

[Bojka]

Yeah but like, he was a legally crowned prince from an area we commonly refer to as the capitol of Ukraine.

Ok. And many of the Polish royals who ruled over Ukraine for centuries were born in modern day Ukraine. That didn't make them Ukrainian. The royals back then were of a different class and, in Ukraine, typically of a different background.

 

[Rational Poster]

Ok. And many of the Polish royals who ruled over Ukraine for centuries were born in modern day Ukraine. That didn't make them Ukrainian. The royals back then were of a different class and, in Ukraine, typically of a different background.

Yeah like I said in my edit, this was an incredibly common practice during this period, prior, and going forward into the future.

There are no pure blood royals now or then. So it's a silly place to set the bar.

You were expected to secure foreign marriages for alliances, etc.

 

[Bojka]

Yeah like I said in my edit, this was an incredibly common practice during this period, prior, and going forward into the future.

There are no pure blood royals now or then. So it's a silly place to set the bar.

You were expected to secure foreign marriages for alliances, etc.

So what made him Ukrainian?

He wasn't genetically Ukrainian (or what would become Ukrainian). Perhaps some very small percentage.
He didn't speak Ukrainian because the Ukrainian language didn't exist yet

Are we going to call the cumans, pechenegs, etc. who lived in the Ukrainian steppe "Ukrainian" because they inhabited and had domain over what is now modern day Ukraine?

 

[Rational Poster]

So what made him Ukrainian?

He wasn't genetically Ukrainian (or what would become Ukrainian). Perhaps some very small percentage.
He didn't speak Ukrainian because the Ukrainian language didn't exist yet

Are we going to call the cumans, pechenegs, etc. who lived in the Ukrainian steppe "Ukrainian" because they inhabited and had domain over what is now modern day Ukraine?

I mean you can fairly say that Moscow was founded by the Kievan Rus, not any Russians, who didn't exist yet.

 

[SandisLL]

Ok. And many of the Polish royals who ruled over Ukraine for centuries were born in modern day Ukraine. That didn't make them Ukrainian. The royals back then were of a different class and, in Ukraine, typically of a different background.

Poles in reality had ruled some part of current Russia ( Smolensk city etc)
and part of current Ukraine.
While NEVER all Ukr or Russia.
Kiev they for some years had ruled, de facto mainly indirectly.

 

[Bojka]

I mean you can fairly say that Moscow was founded by the Kievan Rus, not any Russians, who didn't exist yet.

It wasn't even called Kievan Rus back then. That is a modern term. It was called Russkaya Zemlja - "Rus Land." It is only called Kievan Rus to differentiate it from the various other Rus regions that existed throughout history.

Kiev was the capital of an alliance of different tribal polities. It was only the capital because its economy was more developed thanks to its trade routes. Ukrainians weren't really the founders of it (they were Norse anyway). Many parts of modern Ukraine were some of the last regions to join the alliance.

 

[Rational Poster]

It wasn't even called Kievan Rus back then. That is a modern term. It was called Russkaya Zemlja - "Rus Land." It is only called Kievan Rus to differentiate it from the various other Rus regions that existed throughout history.

Kiev was the capital of an alliance of different tribal polities. It was only the capital because its economy was more developed thanks to its trade routes. Ukrainians weren't really the founders of it (they were Norse anyway). Many parts of modern Ukraine were some of the last regions to join the alliance.

Well sure, we're in modern times currently so I'm going to use modern terms.

I'm definitely not an expert on proto-Ukranian/Russian/slavic language

 

[Bojka]

Well sure, we're in modern times currently so I'm going to use modern terms.

I'm definitely not an expert on proto-Ukranian/Russian/slavic language

I'm just playing devil's advocate and countering what I see as an overcorrection to Russian versions of history. Russians indeed have a nonsense version of east slavic history. What I have seen in recent years however is practically a mirror image to this; trading Russo-centrism for Ukraino-centrism. But just more nonsense nonetheless.