Sakuraba >>> St. Pierre and Hughes, is that correct?

Saku was a different kind of fighter in a different era in a different country under different rules. Hard to compare. GSP never fought above his weight. Hughes moved down in weight. Saku almost never fought anyone his size or smaller, and still wound up winning the majority of his bouts. I doubt a prime GSP could beat Rampage in PRIDE - but I also doubt a prime Saku could beat a prime BJ Penn. I'd favor a prime GSP over a prime Saku for sure.
 
I love Saku's heart, and I truly do admire his game and spirit.

That being said, I think his record of accomplishment tends to be exaggerated sometimes.

His top wins list is relatively modest compared to the level of worship, even accounting for the weight issue. When he faced the true top guys, he almost always lost, often brutally.
 
TheWalrusNo9 said:
How does Hughes or GSP beat Saku? Don't just be a smart ass posting memes, give me some actual thoughts on this.
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GSP beats him by being both a better striker and MMA grappler. It's not even close. It's like thinking Royce Gracie could come back and beat everyone.

Saku is a legend and I mean no disrespect, but it was a different era, and trying to pit him against GSP in a fight does nothing but tarnish Saku's status. It just should not be done.
 
You can't lump GSP, and Hughes into one group.

They're not in the same category. He may have been better than Hughes. But...

At WW there is GSP... Then there is EVERYBODY else, Sakuraba included.
 
funksoulbrother said:
We're comparing their 200+ pound opponents and how they did against them so yeah good chance pre usada Hendricks was roided up too and he was scoring 1 punch knockouts before the gsp fight
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So Hendricks = Wand ok.....
 
TheAmericanGazelle said:
His top wins list is relatively modest compared to the level of worship, even accounting for the weight issue. When he faced the true top guys, he almost always lost, often brutally.
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He did lose, but to much larger fighters, such as Wanderlei Silva. But his accomplishments speak for themselves: he submitted Rampage (after surviving slams), he submitted 2 Gracies and forced Royce to give up, then went 15 minutes with Igor after 90 minutes against Royce. He had an exceptional instinct for submission grappling and it wasn't just what he did but also how he did it.

Was he the best fighter of all time? No, not at all. But his heart, his accomplishments, and his willingness to fight literally anybody under whatever rules they wanted is something that a lot of fans admire. BJ Penn had a similar mindset at one point, though he definitely didn't have Saku's heart.
 
UJustGotChaeld said:
Hendricks would not simply stand and bang, Hendricks 10/10.
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Wandy was a pretty different fighter in PRIDE. If we're talking Wandy vs Hendricks, we're talking no drug testing, both at their primes...

Wandy beats him. He's too big, too powerful, and too aggressive for Hendricks. Rampage couldn't get the job done, and he was an excellent wrestler back in the day, before he turned into the wannabe boxer decision machine
 
Saku didn't fight enough at WW to have the same resume. A better question would be out of this group of the all time great WW's who would be favored vs Saku?

GSP, Hughes, BJ, Lawler, Diaz, Hendricks, Condit, Fitch, Shields, Woodley and Militech.

I just don't see any of them beating him more times than he'd beat them. His sub defense was arguably the best ever, his stamina is legendary, his takedowns and ground game would absolutely translate into modern MMA. His stand up was wild and sloppy, but he took huge shots from much bigger men before his chin finally cracked.
 
TheWalrusNo9 said:
Head-to-head I just don't see how anyone could favor GSP or Hughes to beat Saku. Hughes style is tailor made for Saku as he is worse on the feet and had poor submission defense over is career.

GSP could theoretically just Jab and move to a UD, but I'd favor Saku to either hurt him the feet or submit him.
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You favor Saku to hurt and submit GSP ? Did i just read that right ?
 
TheWalrusNo9 said:
Head-to-head I just don't see how anyone could favor GSP or Hughes to beat Saku. Hughes style is tailor made for Saku as he is worse on the feet and had poor submission defense over is career.

GSP could theoretically just Jab and move to a UD, but I'd favor Saku to either hurt him the feet or submit him.
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You are absolutely delusionnal. Saku is so fucking overrated.
 
WinZip said:
He did lose, but to much larger fighters, such as Wanderlei Silva. But his accomplishments speak for themselves: he submitted Rampage (after surviving slams), he submitted 2 Gracies and forced Royce to give up, then went 15 minutes with Igor after 90 minutes against Royce. He had an exceptional instinct for submission grappling and it wasn't just what he did but also how he did it.

Was he the best fighter of all time? No, not at all. But his heart, his accomplishments, and his willingness to fight literally anybody under whatever rules they wanted is something that a lot of fans admire. BJ Penn had a similar mindset at one point, though he definitely didn't have Saku's heart.
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I think pretty much any serious fan admires Saku for those things you mentioned above. He's a legend and in everyone's heart for those reasons for sure.

But those things are categorically different than evaluating better or worse in terms of wins and losses and skills/abilities. If you are talking about "best", you need to flip performance into wins, ideally a bunch of top wins.

Skill-for-skill, GSP is very clearly superior to Sakuraba. Ditto with legacy/record.
 
UJustGotChaeld said:
GSP beats him by being both a better striker and MMA grappler. It's not even close. It's like thinking Royce Gracie could come back and beat everyone.

Saku is a legend and I mean no disrespect, but it was a different era, and trying to pit him against GSP in a fight does nothing but tarnish Saku's status. It just should not be done.
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Try to imagine GSP vs Rampage and Randleman. Lel. Prime Saku is a clear favorite vs GSP.
 
Sakuraba is the goat. His creativity is unmatched. Only jones comes close.
 
Love me some Saku, but I don't think there's a rational argument to put him above GSP at WW.

With respect to Saku's balls in competing above weight most of his career, did he even really fight at WW?! I get that he's a natural WW, but did he fight there...?
 
The bottom line is that Saku never actually dominated at WW, so the answer is "no". It's easier to fight at a higher weight class, get a few wins that look great and have a ready made excuse when you lose than it is to dominate a division (see Conor). Saying that such a person could have dominated at lower weight if they wanted to is speculation and doesn't prove anything.
 
CereserBr said:
Sakuraba, the WW goat that never been actually the WW goat... Based on Potential (and acomplishments), was he better than St. Pierre and Hughes? Saku faced some of the toughest competition ever, and has great wins over much bigger guys than him.
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he had a great 3 years. epic even. but holding belts for 6+ years is a different sort of accomplishment.

some rate a great several years higher than longevity. others may not. but if you're going to debate criteria, you should at least bring it up. because that's what this Saku debate is really about; the criteria.

and why aren't you bringing up Jeremy Horn?
 
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