Serious Philosophy Discussion

[meauneau]

Are free choices things that do not have a cause?

 

[French Canadian]

Are free choices things that do not have a cause?

That would seem to me quite untenable. If you choose between options, you have to be in a situation. This situation causes you to choose. You have to be in front of a buffet to choose between the foods there.

 

[meauneau]

That would seem to me quite untenable. If you choose between options, you have to be in a situation. This situation causes you to choose. You have to be in front of a buffet to choose between the foods there.

So free choices in a libertarian view of free will are caused by things outside of us. Seems a bit deterministic to me.

 

[Yotsuya]

The Objectivist response is simple, too: That's nonsense. The only way that would make any sense to an Objectivist would be if - to preserve my Iron Man/Captain America example - the rationale was something like what Iron Man decided: I want them (Gwyneth Paltrow and the Avengers crew, as well as humanity in general) to survive but the only way that that can happen is if I give my life to save theirs. That'd be valid insofar as it's evidence of a rational decision made on the basis of one's values in a state of emergency/exception.

Senator Stern: My priority is to get the Iron Man weapon turned over to the people of the United States of America.
Tony Stark: Well, you can forget it. I am Iron Man. The suit and I are one. To turn over the Iron Man suit would be to turn over myself, which is tantamount to indentured servitude or prostitution, depending on what state you're in. [...]
I'm your nuclear deterrent. It's working. We're safe. America is secure. You want my property? You can't have it. [...] I've successfully privatized world peace. What more do you want? [...] My bond is with the people and I will serve this great nation at the pleasure of myself. If there's one thing I've proven, it's that you can count on me to pleasure myself.

Hearing those lines was one of the greatest moments of my adult life cinephilia.

 

[ajccoming]

Are free choices things that do not have a cause?

I think a better question would be how can free choices without cause, at times, have such huge consequences both in the negative and positive sense?

 

[Tycho- Taylor's Version]

I don't disagree with you that what people experience as agency isn't what they think it is, but seeing as that's what most perceive free will as being, using a different definition of free will and saying they have it will lead most to think you believe they have that mystical type of agency. I understand the motivation behind using the same term to retain some of the connotation, but it doesn't sit right with me; it feels like I'd be playing a word-game meant to trick myself or others, when I find the argument that we have as much "freedom" as we could want or need stands on it's own without the redefinition. Perhaps it helps some combat a sense of nihilistic depression that stems from their deterministic beliefs, but I can't relate

Re: Libertarian Free Will - I'm not sure whether your interpretation of it is wrong, the definition I found on Google is wrong, or I'm misinterpreting something, but my impression of it is that it's closer to the definition of free will I gave than what you seem to be describing:


EDIT: Reading back I suppose you meant philosophers refer to most people's intuition as libertarian free will. In my defense the phrasing was somewhat ambiguous!

Oh ya you're absolutely right, poor writing on my end. Gotta stop posting from my phone.

 

[Joe265]

Free will is in your ability to choose between darkness and light. This is the the test of fear vs faith.

 

[JonesBones]

There are so many great works on Youtube. Listening to more William James on pragmatism and empiricism. He referred to Leibniz's rationalism and arguments for God as "superficiality incarnate". I lol'd.

"And do not tell me that to show the shallowness of rationalist philosophizing I have had to go back to a shallow wigpated age. The optimism of present-day rationalism sounds just as shallow to the fact-loving mind. The actual universe is a thing wide open, but rationalism makes systems, and systems must be closed. For men in practical life perfection is something far off and still in process of achievement. This for rationalism is but the illusion of the finite and relative: the absolute ground of things is a perfection eternally complete."

-William James

 

[JonesBones]

Who is America's best philosopher btw? I think it has to be Peirce or James.

 

[Jon Stark]

How many virgins are posting in this thread? Asking for a friend.

 

[Phlog]

How can people even pretend that free will exists when we can detect an answer having been formed before the conscious mind is aware of it?