SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: WEEK 111: Pan's Labyrinth

[europe1]

NOTE to NON-MEMBERS: Interested in joining the SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB? Shoot me a PM for more info.

Here's a quick list of all movies watched by the SMC.


Tufts wanted to explore Adult Fairy Tales. She hit bullseye with this one.

Our Director

Guillermo del Toro

Guillermo del Toro was born October 9, 1964 in Guadalajara Jalisco, Mexico. Raised by his Catholic grandmother, del Toro developed an interest in filmmaking in his early teens. Later, he learned about makeup and effects from the legendary Dick Smith (Exorcisten(1973)) and worked on making his own short films. At the age of 21, del Toro executive produced his first feature, Dona Herlinda and Her Son (1986). Del Toro spent almost 10 years as a makeup supervisor, and formed his own company, Necropia in the early 1980s. He also produced and directed Mexican television programs at this time, and taught film.

Del Toro got his first big break when Cronos (1993) won nine Ariel Awards (the Mexican equivalent of the Oscars), then went on to win the International Critics Week Prize at Cannes. Following this success, del Toro made his first Hollywood film, Mimic (1997), starring Mira Sorvino.

Del Toro had some unfortunate experiences working with a demanding Hollywood studio on Mimic (1997), and returned to Mexico to form his own production company, The Tequila Gang.

Next for del Toro, was The Devil's Backbone (2001), a Spanish Civil War ghost story. The film was hailed by critics and audiences alike, and del Toro decided to give Hollywood another try. In 2002, he directed the Wesley Snipes vampire sequel, Blade II (2002).

On a roll, Del Toro followed up Blade II (2002) with another successful comic-book inspired film, Hellboy (2004), starring one of Del Toro's favorite actors, Ron Perlman.

Del Toro is divorced, has a daughter and a son and lives in Los Angeles and Toronto.

Our Stars

Ivana Baquero (girl grew)

Sergi Lopez

Film Overview

Premise: In the falangist Spain of 1944, the bookish young stepdaughter of a sadistic army officer escapes into an eerie but captivating fantasy world.



Budget: $19 million
Box Office: $88.3 million




Trivia
(courtesy of IMDB)
* Guillermo del Toro repeatedly said "no" to Hollywood producers, in spite of being offered double the budget provided the film was made in English. He didn't want any compromise in the storyline to suit the "market needs".


* Guillermo del Toro is famous for compiling books full of notes and drawings about his ideas before turning them into films, something he regards as essential to the process. He left years worth of notes for this film in the back of a cab, and when he discovered them missing, he thought it was the end of the project. However, the cab driver found them and, realizing their importance, tracked him down and returned them at great personal difficulty and expense. Del Toro was convinced that this was a blessing and it made him ever more determined to complete the film.


* The English subtitles were translated and written by Guillermo del Toro himself. He no longer trusts translators after having encountered problems with his previous subtitled movies.


* Guillermo del Toro gave up his entire salary, including back-end points, to see this film become realized. To this day, he believes it was worth it.


* It took five hours for Doug Jones to get into The Pale Man costume. Once he was in it, he had to look out the nose holes to see where he was going.


* The Faun addresses Ofelia with the pronoun "vos", which is archaic in Castilian Spanish but was once used to refer to someone for whom the speaker has great respect.


* Sergi López, who plays Captain Vidal, was considered a melodramatic or comedic actor, and the Madrid-based producers told Guillermo del Toro: "You should be very careful because you don't know about these things because you're Mexican, but this guy is not going to be able to deliver the performance". Del Toro replied "Well, it's not that I don't know, it's that I don't care".


* While some viewers believe Ofelia's eating the grapes in the Pale Man's den to be something of a "too dumb to live" moment for the young heroine, it would actually seem to be a reference to what turns out to be her ultimate virtue: Courageous disobedience. According to Guillermo del Toro this theme is why the movie is set against the backdrop of falangist Spain (where disobeying the fascist regime was dangerous), and the final test of character for the princess confirms the importance of disobedience as well.

Of course, Ofelia hadn't eaten for a day, and was likely very hungry, which probably didn't help.



Members:
@europe1
@MusterX
@Scott Parker 27
@the muntjac
@Cubo de Sangre
@sickc0d3r
@chickenluver
@FrontNakedChoke
@AndersonsFoot
@Tufts
@Coolthulu

 

[FrontNakedChoke]

Shieet I forgot to watch this.

Gonna throw it on after work!

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Wasn't my cup of tea. The non-fairy tale stuff reminded me of Black Book, but not as good. The little girl I found annoying and cared not if she succeeded or failed. Scenes in movies like where she ate the grape and let the hourglass run out bug me. Hopefully others here liked it more.

 

[Tufts]

What I loved about this movie is that it was not afraid to embrace the darkness of a true fairy tale. If you look at the original Brothers Grimm, their stories were dark. These are the stories I grew up with in Spain before I was exposed to the sanitized versions that were brought to me in Golden Book form from well meaning Americans. I never enjoyed these stories that strove to protect my child’s mind. I preferred the originals. There were few happy endings, but they felt more real and honest to me.


This is why Ofelia had to die at the end. This is not an American fairy tale.


If you are wondering why Ofelia ate the grapes when she was clearly told not to, it is because it is part of the fairy tale structure. Little Red Riding Hood spoke to strangers. It is just how these stories go. The child always gives in to the temptation. If not, there would be a lack of conflict, and less of a story. It is important to remember she was a very young girl in an unfamiliar place under considerable stress. She made mistakes. I prefer to focus on her wonder of the magical world she discovered (or created), her devotion to her mother, her guts in refusing to accept Vidal as her father, and her bravery when entering the tree and then the labyrinth. Her final decision with her brother shows her moral compass, and I like to hope that she is, in fact, a princess in another realm. There was no way for this movie to be true to itself and have her survive.


While this story mirrors a traditional fairy tale, I enjoy how it also subverts it. Instead of the good mother who dies and is supplanted by the evil step mother, in this movie, the good father (a tailor who would have supported the Republic during the Civil War) is replaced with Vidal, the evil stepfather (a Captain of the Nationalists who won the Civil War with the support of air strikes by Hitler and Mussolini).


The patriarchy plays a heavy handed role in this film. Vidal exemplifies it from the start, not only in his behavior, but also in his blind belief that his unborn child was male. His wife was nothing but a vessel for his progeny that was expendable as soon as the child had been delivered. In this way, she is much like the tree (whose entrance straight up looks like a uterus) and Vidal is much like the toad. The toad does not care about the wellbeing of the tree, and neither does Vidal care about his baby mama, as we see in his insistence that she travel during the end of her pregnancy, and his demand that his son be saved at all costs, including that of her life. The tree was once a shelter for the animals in the forrest, much like Ofelia’s mother was her shelter. The toad is Vidal, using the tree as a vessel for nourishment, much as the man uses the mother as a vessel for his child. They were both expendable.


The doctor, who knows so much more about being pregnant that a woman who has already successfully carried a child, provides Ofelia’s mother with the worse possible care she could receive in her situation, often overriding her desires and wishes. From forcing her into a wheelchair (thus supporting the common practice of treating pregnancy as an illness, when in fact, she needed to exercise), to drugging her with opiates (one of the worse things you can do for a pregnancy), to keeping the one source of comfort she had away from her (her daughter at night), all of his care is damaging and hurtful to her. I felt hope for him as a character when he provided medicine for the resistance, and I was relieved to see him eventually evolve to the point where he respected her wishes the last time he attempted to drug her. Ultimately, he truly redeemed himself as a character by going out like a true man, with dignity while standing up to his beliefs and values, and turning his back on the powerful evil he knew would kill him.


There is also an interesting parallel between Vidal’s table and the Pale Man’s table. The sets mirror each other, each a long table with a monster at the end. Vidal takes from the poor, and the irony is obvious as you watch the military, the members of the nobility and the church (the backbone of the Nationalist movement) eat from over flowing plates while they discuss the bare minimum the common people need to survive. If they are careful, they can make due with the rations. In the fantasy, the pale man consumes the blood of innocents and goes after Ofelia, much like the Nationalist devoirs the sustenance needed by the people.


It is interesting to me that the toad and the pale man are truly monstrous, but that Vidal is handsome and very well put together. It is only at the end when Mercedes cuts him that he starts looking monstrous himself. We have foreshadowing that this will happen when we see Vidal shaving in earlier scenes. The last shot of him shaving almost makes you think that he had, in fact, cut himself. I also really enjoyed watching the aguardiente (hooch) leak out the side of his mouth after he drank. Hopefully that really stung!


The symbolism of time is important in the movie. Vidal has his father’s pocket watch that was shattered during the moment of his father’s death in battle. At the end of the movie, Vidal tries to perpetuate this father-son connection by demanding that Mercedes (Mercies in Spanish) tell his son when he died. This desire is thwarted by Mercedes when she says his son will never even know who he was: He will never know your name. This was the most appropriate punishment Vidal could have ever received, his memory already fading and his existence denied to his progeny. He not only dies, his presence is essentially obliterated.


The monsters in this movie represent fascism. The rebels and Ofelia exist to resist. To me this is the main theme of this movie. Disobedience as a virtue, resistance at any cost as a means to fight evil, whether it is Ofelia’s refusal to call Vidal father, to the doctor helping the man die, to Mercedes being able to escape and the resistance to survive. Sadly, those folks would have to wait until the end of ’75 to see an actual change in the fascist regime.


There is some interesting stuff going on with the language used in the movie that I will need to research to be able to comment upon knowledgeably….stay tuned.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Holy shit @Tufts, if you added pics, gifs, and scenes you'd be giving @europe1 a run for his money.

 

[europe1]

Wasn't my cup of tea.

Holy shit @Tufts, if you added pics, gifs, and scenes you'd be giving @europe1 a run for his money.

Looks like I've been upstaged.

What I loved about this movie

That's one magnificent mega-post, Tufts.

These are the stories I grew up with in Spain before I was exposed to the sanitized versions that were brought to me in Golden Book form from well meaning Americans. I never enjoyed these stories that strove to protect my child’s mind. I preferred the originals

Personally, I grew up with a bunch of Norse, Finish and Greek mythology tales, the immorality mostly uncensored. Really rustled my jimmies when I grew older and encountered iterations that had been given the kiddie gloves.

This is why Ofelia had to die at the end. This is not an American fairy tale.

and I like to hope that she is, in fact, a princess in another realm. There was no way for this movie to be true to itself and have her survive.

So... are you in the "it was all her imagination" camp? And that Ofelia never actually went to the magical dream land?

Vidal never saw that Pan. But on the other hand, the mandrake root seemed to genuinely work. And it's also difficult to imagine how Ofelia got out of her room in the ending unless the chalk that she got from the Pan actually did create passageways, considering she was locked-in and guarded and all that.

Though, I suppose, that one a subtextual level it doesn't matter. Vidal and the system he creates represents franco's fascism. And Ofelia's journey represents overcomming such cruelities and inhumanities.

Ultimately, he truly redeemed himself as a character by going out like a true man, with dignity while standing up to his beliefs and values, and turning his back on the powerful evil he knew would kill him.

And how fitting that it is through an act of disobedience.

If you are wondering why Ofelia ate the grapes when she was clearly told not to, it is because it is part of the fairy tale structure. Little Red Riding Hood spoke to strangers. It is just how these stories go. The child always gives in to the temptation. If not, there would be a lack of conflict, and less of a story.

I have to say though...

this movie clearly places disobedience as a virtue (as you noted). It would seem strange that Ofelia's disobedience would be the result of such a tragedy, the death of the faeries. Especially since how it's so lionized in the rest of the narrative. But maybe those faeries that hover around Ofelia in the ending -- as she's in the golden court -- are supposed to be those faeries that died, showing that they -- like her -- are not "truly" dead.

While this story mirrors a traditional fairy tale, I enjoy how it also subverts it. Instead of the good mother who dies and is supplanted by the evil step mother, in this movie, the good father (a tailor who would have supported the Republic during the Civil War) is replaced with Vidal, the evil stepfather

I had completely missed that point.

There is also an interesting parallel between Vidal’s table and the Pale Man’s table. The sets mirror each other, each a long table with a monster at the end. Vidal takes from the poor, and the irony is obvious as you watch the military, the members of the nobility and the church (the backbone of the Nationalist movement) eat from over flowing plates while they discuss the bare minimum the common people need to survive. If they are careful, they can make due with the rations. In the fantasy, the pale man consumes the blood of innocents and goes after Ofelia, much like the Nationalist devoirs the sustenance needed by the people.

There is also a delightful piece of symbolism... that the Pale Man flies into a murderous rage as soon as Ofelia only snatches a single grape from his table, because she was hungry. It mirrors how the facist served to protect the interest and priviliges of the old guard in Spain, the nobility, the rich, the catholic church. As soon as people wish for even the slightest bit of improvement... they fly into a murderous rage, like the Pale Man.

Del Toro even straight out said that to him the Pale Man represents the Catholic Church during that time-period.

http://screenanarchy.com/2006/12/pans-labyrinthinterview-with-guillermo-del-toro.html

I also really enjoyed watching the aguardiente (hooch) leak out the side of his mouth after he drank. Hopefully that really stung!

That was such a good moment.

 

[europe1]

Sadly, those folks would have to wait until the end of ’75 to see an actual change in the fascist regime.

I think it's interesting that Spain seems to have had a sad history of being jostled back when they were on the brink of progress. Franco's facism is a clear example of that, with his victory over more progressive forces and putting an end to democracy. But you also have examples like Charles IV (1788-1808) who fought back a lot of the Enlightment and Secularization values that had been growing in Spain and doubled-down on the old Conservatism, setting back the nation in comparison to the rest of Europe from which it took a long time to rebound.

Vidal has his father’s pocket watch that was shattered during the moment of his father’s death in battle

A facist who is obsessed with watches and time -- representing his obsession with order and stoicism?

Del Toro has clearly been watcing his Orson Wells!

The Stranger (1946) -- which is about an undercover Nazi that is obsessed with time, order and the maintenance of watches!

Some other potential references in the movie!

Red shoes -- like in the Wizard of Oz (her's is fittingly grimier though)

Beetlejuice -- drawing on a wall with chalk so to open a door to another world.

In this way, she is much like the tree (whose entrance straight up looks like a uterus)

I didn't think of that while watching the movie (nice catch). It's sort of like in Alien (1979) when they deliberately designed the entrences of the Alien ship to resemble a vagina.

 

[Tufts]

Tufts wanted to explore Adult Fairy Tales. She hit bullseye with this one.

 

[minute bull]

GDT love him dem red shoes.​

 

[Tufts]

Holy shit @Tufts, if you added pics, gifs, and scenes you'd be giving @europe1 a run for his money.

It was my intention and I actually had some images I had been toying with, but the post opened during half time of the Spain - Iran World Cup and a girl has to have her priorities!

 

[Tufts]

So... are you in the "it was all her imagination" camp? And that Ofelia never actually went to the magical dream land?

Vidal never saw that Pan. But on the other hand, the mandrake root seemed to genuinely work. And it's also difficult to imagine how Ofelia got out of her room in the ending unless the chalk that she got from the Pan actually did create passageways, considering she was locked-in and guarded and all that.

I am not sure but I don't think it matters.....The cynic in me feels she escaped into her imagination, something I also know a lot about as I grew up in the wilderness on the top of a mountain with nothing but my books and dog. The dreamer in me loves the world she created because it was complex and dark, much like the reality she tried to escape from. Ultimately her survival as a princess makes her death as a child more palatable. It was heart wrenching when she got shot, and kudos to del Toro for filming the shot the way he did, and for having the guts to start and end the film with her bleeding body.

 

[Tufts]

And how fitting that it is through an act of disobedience.

Disobedience is such a strong theme in this movie. Being naturally oppositional defiant myself, I always appreciate some good rule breaking. When she emerged from the tree covered in muck in her pretty dress, I was reminded of the time I climbed the pile of earth my dad had just had delivered to our garden. It was raining and by the time I was done, I looked just like she did. Good times!

 

[Tufts]

I have to say though...

this movie clearly places disobedience as a virtue (as you noted). It would seem strange that Ofelia's disobedience would be the result of such a tragedy, the death of the faeries. Especially since how it's so lionized in the rest of the narrative. But maybe those faeries that hover around Ofelia in the ending -- as she's in the golden court -- are supposed to be those faeries that died, showing that they -- like her -- are not "truly" dead.

I did feel bad for those fairies while I also admired del Toros balls in having their heads so unceremoniously ripped off.... while I shy away from a lot of violence these days, I totally dig violence where I don't feel empathy for the victims. I simultaneously cringed and laughed when it happened....and to TWO of them!

Did you notice if the mom at the end when Ofelia was saved was her real mother? I've been meaning to go back and check. I am kinda hoping it was....but then again, if she was a princess from a different realm she would have had a different mom. I need to figure that out. If it was her real mom, then maybe those were the same fairies.

 

[Tufts]

TheWire1

I had completely missed that point.

See - Having a girl in the club is a good thing after all! My gender tends to notice gender based stuff a little more, me thinks!

 

[Tufts]

There is also a delightful piece of symbolism... that the Pale Man flies into a murderous rage as soon as Ofelia only snatches a single grape from his table, because she was hungry. It mirrors how the facist served to protect the interest and priviliges of the old guard in Spain, the nobility, the rich, the catholic church. As soon as people wish for even the slightest bit of improvement... they fly into a murderous rage, like the Pale Man.

Del Toro even straight out said that to him the Pale Man represents the Catholic Church during that time-period.

http://screenanarchy.com/2006/12/pans-labyrinthinterview-with-guillermo-del-toro.html

Yes! And I think we could probably find some parallels with the Last Supper as well as with the Garden of Eden..... Ofelia ate the forbidden fruit and was then banished from the realm and forced to suffer as a result.

 

[Tufts]

I think it's interesting that Spain seems to have had a sad history of being jostled back when they were on the brink of progress. Franco's facism is a clear example of that, with his victory over more progressive forces and putting an end to democracy. But you also have examples like Charles IV (1788-1808) who fought back a lot of the Enlightment and Secularization values that had been growing in Spain and doubled-down on the old Conservatism, setting back the nation in comparison to the rest of Europe from which it took a long time to rebound.

Trump in the United States now?

 

[Tufts]

Del Toro has clearly been watcing his Orson Wells!

The Stranger (1946) -- which is about an undercover Nazi that is obsessed with time, order and the maintenance of watches!

I was also amused (and annoyed) that he noticed that the wife and Ofelia were 15 minutes late when they arrived. Prolly coz she got sick from the trip and they had to stop. It nicely set him up as the controlling fascist POS he was!

 

[MusterX]

Well @Tufts seems to have something to say and is from Spain. This is unfair

His wife was nothing but a vessel for his progeny that was expendable as soon as the child had been delivered. In this way, she is much like the tree (whose entrance straight up looks like a uterus) and Vidal is much like the toad.

It figures it would take a woman to recognize that the tree is a uterus and the toad is Vital. She got a key out of the toads stomach and I also wondered if this was foreshadowing that in her mother's womb was her brother, and her brother was the key to the final test.

Its interesting how American fairy tales are generally given to messages of good and evil with good winning out in the end, that compared to a dark fairy tale which may have a terrible ending. This movie gets confusing starting with the fairies. Fairies in the tradition sense look like this.

Or like Tinkerbell from Peter Pan

The thing about that is Pan is the god of nature and sex and when looking into this stuff I found this quote.

Pan was a god of the woodlands and wild places, and was commonly associated with the season of Spring. He was undergoing a renaissance of popularity in the literature of the late 19th century, and J. M. Barrie associated these characteristics with his character: a feral child who would remain young forever. (Plus, he'd already decided to call the boy "Peter" and probably liked the alliteration.) In the character's first appearance (before the play), Peter learns to play the pipes (like Pan), and rides an imaginary goat.

So that kinda ruins Peter Pan a little bit, especially since Peter is another word for penis. Why is the film called Pan's Labryinth? There is a tremendous amount of confusion here.

Fauno claimed to be a faun.

A faun has the back legs and head of a goat. The god Pan is a Satyr, which also looks like a faun.

The name of the movie is not Faun's Labyrinth, its Pan's Labyrinth. We never see Pan, that is, unless Fauno = Pan which makes him deceptive. Lets get back to the fairies for a second. The fairies in Pan's Labyrinth were not fairies, they were insects.

They transformed themselves to look like the fairy that the girl was used to. The link to Satan is partially because the pagan symbol for Satan is the goat. Even if this is not an allegory or a metaphor for Satan, the fairy tale of Pan's Labyrinth is deep, dank, and dark. It ends with blood sacrifice. I'm not in any way convinced, unlike @Tufts , that the girl is in some fairy tale kingdom of niceties. The fairies were insects, the kingdom was somewhere in the "underworld", Pan was deceptively pretending to be Fauno, and the girl was blood sacrificed.

That brings us to the Pale Man.

The Pale Man is obviously a demon. He's trapped in his lair and he feeds on children. He had an entire pile of shoes in the corner.

Its interesting to note that the Roman's knew of Pan and during their reign they engaged in child rape and infanticide. The Pale Man eating children I believe is a direct reflection of those times. That and Spain had its issues with war and the treatment of children and even cannibalism. Pan is also were we get the word panic. This Pan fella is not a nice guy, he's a weirdo. Here he is having sex with a goat.

Bottom line: The debil

 

[Tufts]

It figures it would take a woman to recognize that the tree is a uterus and the toad is Vital. She got a key out of the toads stomach and I also wondered if this was foreshadowing that in her mother's womb was her brother, and her brother was the key to the final test.

One possible interpretation is that the toad is the brother. The tree is being killed slowly by the toad, much like the baby is making the mother ill. Another is that the toad represents the fascists, starving the tree and the animals that depend on the tree to live, in the same way the fascists took from and starved the people. I like your key theory. Had not thought of that. The beauty of movies like this is there are so many interpretations.

 

[Tufts]

Its interesting how American fairy tales are generally given to messages of good and evil with good winning out in the end, that compared to a dark fairy tale which may have a terrible ending. This movie gets confusing starting with the fairies. Fairies in the tradition sense look like this.

Or like Tinkerbell from Peter Pan

American faeries are very blond and pretty!

Here we have Chullachaki - a shape shifting faery that protects the flora and fauna of Latin America. While the movie was set in Spain, del Toro was very influenced by imagery he would have been exposed to as a child in Mexico.

And this is Kurupi - minor South American fairies that represent fertility. They usually have long dongs. Funny that there is a red shoe in this shot!