SHERDOG MOVIE CLUB: WEEK 122: Birdman or (The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance)

[europe1]

To add insult to injury, I was reading this thread through a cellphone when you posted that

So Keaton's hardships are worthwhile and noble because he was searching for "a real experience"?

I hate to sound like @Bullitt68 here, but if that "real experience" leads him to almost committing suicide (they never say if he blow his nose off on purpose or accident, right?), isn't it rather self-defeating? What value does it have if it leads to you dying or losing his nose? Ah, screw all this @Bullitt68 talk! Suicides for everyone! Yayyyy!

Then again, I don't know how literally we are to take anything that happens in the ending. I mean, this is a movie that ends with him flying out of the window and his daughter watching. Maybe the whole suicide thing is more metaphorical.

I think Birdman could be a nasty satire about ambitious actors and not so much about art. I’ll try to watch it again if I’m in the mood.

I never took the movie to be really about[...] art

Having rewatched the movie, all I can say is, I sort of get the impression that it's both. On some level, it's making fun of all these crazy actor types. But all those monologues and dialogues about acting and the theater are a bit too seriously-delivered and pathos-filled to not be a part of the films texture.

Michael Keaton is glorious as Riggan Thomson

The movie opens with a shot of Riggan levitating in his dressing room. Its the type of shot that throws the viewer straight into the mind of the films protagonist.

True dat! I think it's rather interesting that he's in some meditative position, projecting a sense of tranquility, when the rest of the movie is basically an escalation of him psychologically spiraling out of control.

Riggan is unhappy with one of his actors and he glances at the area above the actors head just before a light falls and knocks him out. Hmm, ok that's weird.

Got to love how that guy returned as Riggan is walking through the lobby in his underwear, accompanied by a fat, stuffy lawyer who wants to sue them.

Maybe we could assume that this is the symbolic moment that Sam looks up to and respects her father, loves her father, which is what Riggan desperately wanted all along

Could be that...

By having achieved "true" artistry, Riggan now can actually fly.

But I think, that ending is more like a dream-sequence, a reflection of Riggan's head. His wishes and ambitions coming through. Notice how close and affectionate he seems to be with his daughter -- and that his show is a smash-hit. All his worries have dilapidated, turned into successes. He's even caged the Birdman himself! He has been miracolously validated... despite attempting to comit suicide. It makes me think of the ending of Taxi Driver (after the shoot-out), in that many people believe that to be all in Travis's head, just based on how everything turns out the way he wants it to be despite it's unlikelihood.

Michael Keaton playing Batman just adds to this already richly layered film

Keaton doesn't really fit into the mold of Riggan though. Riggan has supposedly done nothing of notoriety since Birdman, a pop-corn selling celebrity without any artistry. That doesn't really fit with Keaton's image. I don't think anyone doubts his artistry and ability to perform beyond superhero-fare. Hell, when Keaton got the role of Batman, plenty of people didn't like him since they couldn't imagine this goofy, comedic guy being badass -- and then he turned out to be the best Batman of all time (excluding Adam West of course).

That is what Riggan ends the play with, "I don't exist. I don't exist."

In the first stage-scene -- where that light-prop falls on the bad actors head -- they also discuss suicide. Keaton mentions the failure of suicide, while the bad actor calls suicide crazy, and then the prop falls on him.

At 2:35 she says, "You're the one that doesn't exist." She is referring to the point that he doesn't even have a Facebook or Twitter page and hates bloggers.

Notice how Emma and the people who think like here are always mentioning numbers. You've been seen by xxxx amounts of people, as if someone's self-worth is judged soley by how many people they attract. They never once mention the quality of the message, "are you saying/doing something worthwhile".

The main theme to me is "how important is external validation to personal validation and why do we care?" The main character is doing the play for validation due to his perception as an actor and failings as a husband and father

Well articulated. His ex-wife even tells him "you cofuse love for admiration". I definitively do think that's part of the theme. But I also do think that the question of "is there something *special* to artistry that places it above mere face-recognizing celebritism that Riggan already has" is there in the theme.

 

[MusterX]

Could be that...

By having achieved "true" artistry, Riggan now can actually fly.

But I think, that ending is more like a dream-sequence, a reflection of Riggan's head. His wishes and ambitions coming through. Notice how close and affectionate he seems to be with his daughter -- and that his show is a smash-hit. All his worries have dilapidated, turned into successes. He's even caged the Birdman himself! He has been miracolously validated... despite attempting to comit suicide.

Right but its not just a delusional moment. Sam is there holding his hand and hugging him. The transformation, at least in the sense of his relationship with his daughter, does in fact seem to be transformed.

Keaton doesn't really fit into the mold of Riggan though. Riggan has supposedly done nothing of notoriety since Birdman, a pop-corn selling celebrity without any artistry. That doesn't really fit with Keaton's image. I don't think anyone doubts his artistry and ability to perform beyond superhero-fare. Hell, when Keaton got the role of Batman, plenty of people didn't like him since they couldn't imagine this goofy, comedic guy being badass -- and then he turned out to be the best Batman of all time (excluding Adam West of course).

Yea but you have this in the OP.

* Similar to how Michael Keaton's Birdman reflects on his earlier role as Batman, Edward Norton's character is a parody of Norton's own reputation for being very abrasive and difficult to work with.

Batman is somehow linked into it for whatever reason.

Notice how Emma and the people who think like here are always mentioning numbers. You've been seen by xxxx amounts of people, as if someone's self-worth is judged soley by how many people they attract. They never once mention the quality of the message, "are you saying/doing something worthwhile".

She tells him he has a million views, or however many it was, and then she says, "you see that, that's power." Views = power. I think its a pretty serious statement about the world we are living in currently. Doesn't matter what it is they are viewing, views = power. Make a YouTube video that gets a billion views and they will pay you nicely for that. Doesn't matter what the content is, it could be you farting. The view count is the only thing that matters. I think Riggan was against this notion he wanted something more, something that mattered which is why he didn't like bloggers or have a Twitter or Facebook account. He got the "views" as Birdman. He wanted something more.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I thought a better job could have been done with the birdman voice. It was a bit too cheesy.

Laughed my ass off when he was running through the streets in his undies.

 

[sickc0d3r]

So Keaton's hardships are worthwhile and noble because he was searching for "a real experience"?

I hate to sound like @Bullitt68 here, but if that "real experience" leads him to almost committing suicide (they never say if he blow his nose off on purpose or accident, right?), isn't it rather self-defeating? What value does it have if it leads to you dying or losing his nose? Ah, screw all this @Bullitt68 talk! Suicides for everyone! Yayyyy!

Then again, I don't know how literally we are to take anything that happens in the ending. I mean, this is a movie that ends with him flying out of the window and his daughter watching. Maybe the whole suicide thing is more metaphorical.

Well, I think Riggin's deal was more about transformation. I'm planning to touch more on that in my review if I ever get to it. They made sure he rather looked like he was wearing the Birdman mask when he was bandaged up.

I was saying the message of the film in the climax might be something about the level of shock required to get people to put away technology for a minute and experience reality. Reality and honesty were themes throughout the movie. The scene from that gif was set off by dude's vodka being replaced by water, which made him go off on a rant about it.

As for the ending, I agree it was too ambiguous to be sure. It was the weakest moment in the film I thought. Just kind of a worthless addition, imo.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

As for the ending, I agree it was too ambiguous to be sure. It was the weakest moment in the film I thought. Just kind of a worthless addition, imo.

Early on I was hoping this was going to be a story of triumph where Batman got his acting chops sharpened up through inspiration provided by Norton. Then at one point he pulled off his hair and I said to myself that we're not getting a happy ending. That's when I predicted him shooting Norton and then himself. Either of those endings would have been far more preferable than what we got.

How dafuq do you shoot your nose off? It's fuckin' point-blank range. Not even just a bad angle on the skull. Makes me wonder if there's supposed to be some sort of symbolism with it being his beak.

 

[sickc0d3r]

Early on I was hoping this was going to be a story of triumph where Batman got his acting chops sharpened up through inspiration provided by Norton. Then at one point he pulled off his hair and I said to myself that we're not getting a happy ending. That's when I predicted him shooting Norton and then himself. Either of those endings would have been far more preferable than what we got.

How dafuq do you shoot your nose off? It's fuckin' point-blank range. Not even just a bad angle on the skull. Makes me wonder if there's supposed to be some sort of symbolism with it being his beak.

I also figured he would off himself, but I don't mind him surviving, nor the fluky missed shot. I just thought why leap out the window at that point? I guess he got everything he wanted, but then pulled off the bandages and still saw basically the same face peering back at him, so wanted to die anyway? Ok, so now we went from a sad ending, to a happy one, then back to sad. Then his daughter sees him flying or something and smiles? Now what, are we happy again? It was confusing and for me took away from everything that happened before that.

Norton definitely did make him a better actor, though.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I also figured he would off himself, but I don't mind him surviving, nor the fluky missed shot. I just thought why leap out the window at that point? I guess he got everything he wanted, but then pulled off the bandages and still saw basically the same face peering back at him, so wanted to die anyway? Ok, so now we went from a sad ending, to a happy one, then back to sad. Then his daughter sees him flying or something and smiles? Now what, are we happy again? It was confusing and for me took away from everything that happened before that.

Norton definitely did make him a better actor, though.

The ending reminds me of Radio Flyer, except in that movie it was appropriate.

Was there any closure on Norton's character? Can't remember. And yeah, Birdman's stage acting picked up once Ed arrived. It wasn't until about halfway through (right after the first reviews came out) that Keaton's acting picked up. Still fell short of Norton's though.

 

[sickc0d3r]

The ending reminds me of Radio Flyer, except in that movie it was appropriate.

Was there any closure on Norton's character? Can't remember. And yeah, Birdman's stage acting picked up once Ed arrived. It wasn't until about halfway through (right after the first reviews came out) that Keaton's acting picked up. Still fell short of Norton's though.

I don't think there was any closure for Mike. Unless banging Riggan's daughter counts.

And I guess I need to see Radio Flyer now

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I don't think there was any closure for Mike. Unless banging Riggan's daughter counts.

There should have been, since he was the best character in the show. And I wouldn't count that. Just seems like more problems than he already had.

 

[sickc0d3r]

There should have been, since he was the best character in the show. And I wouldn't count that. Just seems like more problems than he already had.

Mike was a great character, absolutely happy to agree to that. But Riggan built momentum and took over, imo. Guy was a frenetic mess and played it perfectly. I loved this scene. He even nailed the slightly drunk slur:

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Mike was a great character, absolutely happy to agree to that. But Riggan built momentum and took over, imo. Guy was a frenetic mess and played it perfectly. I loved this scene. He even nailed the slightly drunk slur:

That scene was fuckin' great for sure. But Riggan only took over because Mike had no scenes.

 

[moreorless87]

My view was always that the fantasy elements weren't ment to be some representation of mental illness so his daughter seeing him at the end isn't really a breach of that.

Ultimately I'm not sure the film looks to give a definitive judgement or message so much as it gives air to several different viewpoints and leaves things in the eye of the beholder. The shooting suicide attempt and the aftermath I'd say poking fun at media and public obsession with personal drama over art.

 

[Tufts]

The ending reminds me of Radio Flyer, except in that movie it was appropriate.

Was there any closure on Norton's character? Can't remember. And yeah, Birdman's stage acting picked up once Ed arrived. It wasn't until about halfway through (right after the first reviews came out) that Keaton's acting picked up. Still fell short of Norton's though.

I think the last time we saw him in an active role was when he had sex with Sam above the theatre. That was a triumph for him as he had trouble with erections. When he appears in the last scene, he is only shown and heard from a distance. He is fully in the background.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I think the last time we saw him in an active role was when he had sex with Sam above the theatre. That was a triumph for him as he had trouble with erections. When he appears in the last scene, he is only shown and heard from a distance. He is fully in the background.

Yeah. Nothing better than a boner. Beats shooting your nose (although it didn't look like he had) and then diving out a window. Batman should have shot him for humping his little girl and then did the deed right on opening night. Far more predictable, but not anti-climactic. The film was all down hill after the standing ovation.

 

[Tufts]

Oh boy. I've been looking forward to this.

First of all we are dealing with Magical Realism.

Definition courtesy of Britannica.com
Magic realism, chiefly Latin-American narrative strategy that is characterized by the matter-of-fact inclusion of fantastic or mythical elements into seemingly realistic fiction. Although this strategy is known in the literature of many cultures in many ages, the term magic realism is a relatively recent designation, first applied in the 1940s by Cuban novelist Alejo Carpentier, who recognized this characteristic in much Latin-American literature. Some scholars have posited that magic realism is a natural outcome of postcolonial writing, which must make sense of at least two separate realities—the reality of the conquerors as well as that of the conquered. Prominent among the Latin-American magic realists are the Colombian Gabriel García Márquez, the Brazilian Jorge Amado, the Argentines Jorge Luis Borges and Julio Cortazar, and the Chilean Isabel Allende.

Magical realism (MR) is one of my favorite genre's in literature. I love its inclusion in film. I believe we touched on it when we discussed Pan's Labyrinth, and if we didn't we darn well should have.

This movie is chock full of MR flights of fantasy...literally.

During the Latin American Boom, MR was used as means to subvert political systems when freedom of expression was not possible. I believe that in this movie it is being used as a commentary on what it means to stay relevant. This has already been brought up , so I am not going to dwell on it too much. To me, the most important scene that shows this is the one where Sam eviscerates her father when she points out his lack of social media presence. I love the commentary by both @europe1 and @MusterX on how what matters are the number of followers and likes as opposed to the quality of the message. I was most amused when he was asked: Is it true you have been injecting yourself with semen from baby pigs? Are you denying it. This movie was chock full of criticism about the superficiality of our virtual lives.

Note that the film starts with a scene deeply immersed in the genre of MR.

And it ends with one as well, when Riggon jumps out the window and presumably flies (more on the ending in a different post). I want to get lots of likes, and know that posts that deal with too many subjects and get too long are not popular

I believe Iñárritu also uses MR to show an alternate reality taking place in Riggon's head. In the opening scene he is alone, so he mater of factly just steps down when he is done meditating, and then goes to work. When the original bad actor has the light fall on his head, we see Riggon glance up, giving us the impression he used telekinesis when in fact, he could have just rigged it to fall. See what I did there<45>There are several other scenes where he moves objects with his mind. The first indication we get that it may not be real is when he trashes his dressing room using his mind, coz when Jake walks in, he sees Riggon doing it with his hands that are actually cut from the violence he inflicted. Follow that juxtaposition of MR and reality with Riggon jumping off of the roof and flying to the office scene, a scene that concludes with the cab driver demanding to get paid. The movie ends with the final MR scene where Riggon jumps out of the window feeling successful, happy and complete. As per the opening words of the film

Riggon felt beloved by his daughter and by the world. And I do think this movie was as much about what it means to be relevant in the world as it was about what it means to be relevant in personal relationships, in this case, with his daughter.

Another MR element is presented via the narrative, and that is when he tells his wife about his suicide attempt that was thwarted by the jelly fish attack. In her memory, he passed out and got sunburned.

So when he is alone, the MR is unchallenged. When he isn't, there is a character at play who indicates that Riggon's experiences are not actually happening.

Which leads me to think the end does not actually happen. Riggon dies on stage and everything that happens afterwards is during his dying moments. He believes he has accomplished greatness, he fantasizes about his daughter's love, he jumps out the window and flies and she smiles at him flying away. It is the only scene with another main character where that character buys into the MR presented on screen.

Uh-ho! I did touch on the ending. Might as well keep going.

I find it ironic that in a film full of MR, he is praised for achieving Super Realism from his act of shooting himself in the head. When Tabitha walks out, we see the first clear cut in the movie. Is it because he is dead? The entire movie was fluid, this cut feels like a change in reality.

Other things that make me think he died on stage:
- The flashbacks they show right after he shot himself (the meteor and beach jellyfish scene)

- The fact that his injuries don't make sense. He is hardly injured at all. Jake alludes to him having shot his nose off and he now has a replacement that looks like a beak and he cannot smell the flowers.

- The fact that he received a great review, even though we see Tabitha walk out without clapping. There is no indication she liked the play. this happens around :50 seconds.



- The fact that everything that happens to him is too good to be true and goes against the darkness that was prevalent in the rest of the film Do you really think Iñarritu would create such a happy ending in a film about ego and failure and the need for acceptance? It was all too far fetched. It was what Riggon would have dreamed for himself, nothing more than a dying man's hallucinations, including finally getting the peonies and adoration he wanted from his daughter, affection from his ex wife and global success and recognition.

Sam shares his MR reality with him because he is dead. He is finally experiencing his unexpected virtue of ignorance.

 

[Tufts]

This movie is an exploration of what it means to be relevant. It also explores the value of being a celebrity v being a movie star v being an actor v being an actor (imagine me saying that in a snooty French accent to showcase I mean an actor of the theatre (theatre was said in a snooty British accent!)). It is blockbusters v indi films v theatre. It is about youth v age. Another favourite quote is: Oh look at me. Look at this. I look like a turkey with leukemia. I'm fucking disappearing.

 

[Tufts]

Quick comment about the social commentary regarding the treatment of women in the industry. Sam is objectified by Norton when he comments on her ass. He is a particularly crappy character, essentially sexually assaulting Naomi on stage. I found this to be especially heart breaking because she got him the part and he was cavalier, disrespectful and hateful towards her as a person and towards her dreams. Several times she said that being on Broadway was her dream, and to please not ruin it, and he showed complete disregard towards her as a human, as his partner and as a colleague. Even Jake was inappropriate when he kissed Naomi on the lips after she got Norton to take the role. I appreciated Sam going after what she wanted, even if it was Norton, and the two actresses supporting each other verbally and then physically. I also appreciated Keaton talking to Naomi and validating her work. Much like Keaton, she also just wanted to be seen and recognized.

 

[Tufts]

I also see a transposition and exploration of realities in this film. There is real life. Then there is life as it is represented on social media. There is the reality of a scene taking place in a movie that was staged, filmed and edited v a scene taking place live by real people on a stage. There is Magical Realism, insanity or imagination and then there is Super Realism, where the scene on stage infringes on real life by the way of death. There are actors playing actors who talk about actors who exist in the context of the film who are also actors in real life. It is super interesting to me.

 

[Yotsuya]

First of all we are dealing with Magical Realism.

I hadn’t thought about this. I assosiate Inarritu with grinding, raw drama movies and Birdman was a pleasant surprise, as it seemed to deal with desire to get your guts wrenched by stuff that makes you hatefull or anxious and how produsing that stuff seems to be a measure of a true artist. I loved how Birdman used absurd humor to do that and now I see the big picture of it being actually part Magical Realism tradition.

Having rewatched the movie, all I can say is, I sort of get the impression that it's both. On some level, it's making fun of all these crazy actor types. But all those monologues and dialogues about acting and the theater are a bit too seriously-delivered and pathos-filled to not be a part of the films texture.

Yes, it’s all coming back to me slowly.

 

[moreorless87]

I think we can see from the way RIggan behaves he's not suffering from some extreme form of hallucinatory mental illness, rather these images are a visualisation of his mental state. Birdman is basically the ego of the Hollywood star telling him that extreme financial success and blockbuster ultra budget events are what he really craves.

Again I would say the film isn't really presenting any kind of final judgement on the themes it touches on, indeed I think there issues so broad and nuanced that doing so would be highly questionable. We can acknowledge the worth of what the character is attempting trying to push himself but also acknowledge that it still has the potential to be vanity.