So I got a „herniated disc warning“ when deadlifting

KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
Paging my bro @ChickenBrother and other advisor @Volador whose opinion I value as well. If you guys care to read my OP…
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Whassup bro. I saw your OP but didn't comment before because I can't say I've ever felt sharp pain like that from doing barbell deadlift. Dull ache from lifting too much weight with bad form yes, but not sharp pain like a slipped disc from Judo or wrestling and then struggling to get in and out of bed for a few days.

But I can relate to what you're saying re. difference between regular DL and snatch pull DL. As a fellow snatch enthusiast, I've also been working snatch and cleans starting with shoulders in front of bar and am getting more used to that now. I've always thought regular barbell DL is great for building overall strength but haven't been doing them lately because that's the one lift that taxes my recovery the most and leaves me feeling stiff the next day for BJJ or wrestling. Part of that is me never having great form with a barbell DL but I do occasionally do them with my rickshaw in conjunction with farmer's carries.

But ditching heavy barbell DL is in line with my transition to an old man lifting routine with less weight and greater emphasis on flexibility, form and ROM, including snatch, OH squats and C&J.
 
ChickenBrother said:
Whassup bro. I saw your OP but didn't comment before because I can't say I've ever felt sharp pain like that from doing barbell deadlift. Dull ache from lifting too much weight with bad form yes, but not sharp pain like a slipped disc from Judo or wrestling and then struggling to get in and out of bed for a few days.

But I can relate to what you're saying re. difference between regular DL and snatch pull DL. As a fellow snatch enthusiast, I've also been working snatch and cleans starting with shoulders in front of bar and am getting more used to that now. I've always thought regular barbell DL is great for building overall strength but haven't been doing them lately because that's the one lift that taxes my recovery the most and leaves me feeling stiff the next day for BJJ or wrestling. Part of that is me never having great form with a barbell DL but I do occasionally do them with my rickshaw in conjunction with farmer's carries.

But ditching heavy barbell DL is in line with my transition to an old man lifting routine with less weight and greater emphasis on flexibility, form and ROM, including snatch, OH squats and C&J.
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How much do you DL and snatch btw?
 
KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
How much do you DL and snatch btw?
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My barbell numbers have never been great but as a 'Murican I've probably been exposed to powerlifting style SBD more than most folks who didn't grow up in the U.S. Most I've ever done on barbell DL is 5 RM of 325 lbs, weighing about 175 lbs, wearing chuck taylors. This was while doing StrongLifts 5x5 and my first 2 reps were clean but I ego lifted the last 3 to finish the set of 5 with my back bowed over and all fucked up. I had a dull ache for the next few days but somehow managed to not herniate a disc.

More recently, I don't do barbell DL regularly but as long as I'm doing squats, bent over rows, etc. I've found I can DL 5 reps of around 205 lbs to 225 lbs with back straight and without feeling at risk of getting hurt. But >245 lbs, my back starts bowing and my form starts falling apart. I'm one of those guys who due to body mechanics or whatever, can barbell squat with good form more than I can barbell DL with good form. About 2 months ago, I did 5 reps of 305 lbs with good form on my Titan rickshaw, which has handles about 4 inches higher than my barbell and doesn't require me to clear my knees with the bar, which is what fucks me up on barbell DL.

On snatch, last week I hit a 2 rep max of 100 lbs, but it was taxing my form and turned into more of a power snatch and then sitting down into a deep OH squat. I still generally stick to snatches with 65 lbs and then ramp up to whatever I feel up for, depending how beat up I am from grappling. Usually I only go up to 75 or 85 lbs but selectively push it if I feel good that day. For the past 5 years, I've consistently weighed about 170 lbs. Last week I managed 3 reps of 125 lbs on C&J and I'd like to get my snatch up to that number by the end of this year. My form on olympic lifts is still shit but I'm making incremental improvements.
 
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ChickenBrother said:
My barbell numbers have never been great but as a 'Murican I've probably been exposed to powerlifting style SBD more than most folks who didn't grow up in the U.S. Most I've ever done on barbell DL is 5 RM of 325 lbs, weighing about 175 lbs, wearing chuck taylors. This was while doing StrongLifts 5x5 and my first 2 reps were clean but I ego lifted the last 3 to finish the set of 5 with my back bowed over and all fucked up. I had a dull ache for the next few days but somehow managed to not herniate a disc.

More recently, I don't do barbell DL regularly but as long as I'm doing squats, bent over rows, etc. I've found I can DL 5 reps of around 205 lbs to 225 lbs with back straight and without feeling at risk of getting hurt. But >245 lbs, my back starts bowing and my form starts falling apart. I'm one of those guys who due to body mechanics or whatever, can barbell squat with good form more than I can barbell DL with good form. About 2 months ago, I did 5 reps of 305 lbs with good form on my Titan rickshaw, which has handles about 4 inches higher than my barbell and doesn't require me to clear my knees with the bar, which is what fucks me up on barbell DL.

On snatch, last week I hit a 2 rep max of 100 lbs, but it was taxing my form and turned into more of a power snatch and then sitting down into a deep OH squat. I still generally stick to snatches with 65 lbs and then ramp up to whatever I feel up for, depending how beat up I am from grappling. Usually I only go up to 75 or 85 lbs but selectively push it if I feel good that day. For the past 5 years, I've consistently weighed about 170 lbs. Last week I managed 3 reps of 125 lbs on C&J and I'd like to get my snatch up to that number by the end of this year. My form on olympic lifts is still shit but I'm making incremental improvements.
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Those snatch and C&J figures exclude the bar, correct?
 
KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
As I was deadlifting the bar from the ground I felt a little snap in my lower spinal area and right away that unmistakable hernia pain around the lower back/hips/glutes appeared. I stopped right away and went on pain killers. Thought fuck me here we go again (I herniated my back 2 years ago but it was fully healed).

To my astonishment though, the acute phase was nowhere near where it was 2 years ago and it stopped bothering me after a week.

Now after 2 weeks I feel like my range of motion is back and I am like pretty much painless.

The orthopedic doctor thinks that it was just a muscle cramp but WTF, it REALLY felt just like the herniated disc I had 2 years ago.

So can the spine send signals like that without being already fucked?
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Any pain down your legs?
 
Rob Battisti said:
You’re good then
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Even why I did have a diagnosed hernia I never really had the pain down my leg thing. It was more like in the glutes/hip area. Which I got again after that „warning“ 2 weeks ago but it got away pretty fast.
 
KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
Even why I did have a diagnosed hernia I never really had the pain down my leg thing. It was more like in the glutes/hip area. Which I got again after that „warning“ 2 weeks ago but it got away pretty fast.
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Well, that’s different. If it’s radiating into your glutes that could be a man indicator
 
KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
Those snatch and C&J figures exclude the bar, correct?
Click to expand...

Damn cold blooded bro lmao. Yes my form on oly lifts still sucks lol. My C&J weight is basically what I can rep out on standing OHP so I'm obviously still fucking up the full body mechanics. And on snatch, I have the upper body strength to muscle more weight on power snatch than full snatch but I'm trying to avoid that habit. I'm clearly still fucking up something in the 3rd pull (probably because I fucked up something near the end of the 2nd pull) which is causing me to take longer to get under the bar than ideal. With very light weight like 65-85 lbs total, I can sometimes land in a deep full snatch bottom position but I've been struggling to replicate that technique with heavier weight without landing in a power snatch position.

I'm starting to accept I'll have to devote the time and effort to learn this lift properly with in-person coaching if I'm ever going to realize my long-term goal of a 1xBW snatch. But even the hilariously light weight I've been doing has had some carryover to more explosive level changes and double leg attempts in wrestling and BJJ when we work TDs.
 
ChickenBrother said:
Damn cold blooded bro lmao. Yes my form on oly lifts still sucks lol. My C&J weight is basically what I can rep out on standing OHP so I'm obviously still fucking up the full body mechanics. And on snatch, I have the upper body strength to muscle more weight on power snatch than full snatch but I'm trying to avoid that habit. I'm clearly still fucking up something in the 3rd pull (probably because I fucked up something near the end of the 2nd pull) which is causing me to take longer to get under the bar than ideal. With very light weight like 65-85 lbs total, I can sometimes land in a deep full snatch bottom position but I've been struggling to replicate that technique with heavier weight without landing in a power snatch position.

I'm starting to accept I'll have to devote the time and effort to learn this lift properly with in-person coaching if I'm ever going to realize my long-term goal of a 1xBW snatch. But even the hilariously light weight I've been doing has had some carryover to more explosive level changes and double leg attempts in wrestling and BJJ when we work TDs.
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Don t get me wrong brother, your DL and Squat number make you a strong person to me. Much stronger than me.

I am just confused by how weak your snatch numbers are when taken in the context of your overall strength especially since you have been snatching for a while. But now I get that you are still perfecting technique and could probably snatch BW on a power snatch so it‘s not a question of strength.
 
Rob Battisti said:
Radiating pain either down the legs but it could be localized down into the glutes.

The biggest thing you need to do is stabilize.

Bird dogs. Bridges etc.

Search for the McGill Big Three
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Yes I did get that radiating pain, but it went away after a couple of days. Now after 2 weeks it‘s as if it never happened. But i am still scared to start judo / lifting again. Hence my thread.
 
KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
Yes I did get that radiating pain, but it went away after a couple of days. Now after 2 weeks it‘s as if it never happened. But i am still scared to start judo / lifting again. Hence my thread.
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Just core stability and mobility.

Everyone has a herniated disk to some degree.
 
KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
Don t get me wrong brother, your DL and Squat number make you a strong person to me. Much stronger than me.

I am just confused by how weak your snatch numbers are when taken in the context of your overall strength especially since you have been snatching for a while. But now I get that you are still perfecting technique and could probably snatch BW on a power snatch so it‘s not a question of strength.
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I appreciate you calling it like it is bro. My oly lifts are indeed pitiful lol. And by standards on strengthlevel.com, they're not even "novice" but high "beginner" which is a "lifter that can perform the movement correctly and has practiced it for at least a month." LMFAO.

strengthlevel.com

Weightlifting Strength Standards - Strength Level

Strength standard tables of one-rep max performance against bodyweight. Available for gym exercises including bench press, squat and deadlift.
strengthlevel.com strengthlevel.com

But at my strongest, my bench has been at advanced and both squat and DL at Intermediate. Bent over rows at high intermediate. And this while also training cardio/running/combat sports. Clearly my form on oly lifts still sucks ass. No way could I power snatch 1 x BW but I could MAYBE do 140ish which is close to intermediate.

But back to your OP, why are you doing barbell DL? IIRC didn't you injure your back last year and have been doing rehab? If you just injured it attempting 70 kg/154 lbs, DL probably shouldn't be in your routine, considering you're in otherwise good shape and I know you also train oly lifts. For perspective, the strengthlevel.com DL standard for "beginner" (lowest category) is just over 1 x BW. What are your numbers on snatch and C&J now?
 
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ChickenBrother said:
I appreciate you calling it like it is bro. My oly lifts are indeed pitiful lol. And by standards on strengthlevel.com, they're not even "novice" but high "beginner" which is a "lifter that can perform the movement correctly and has practiced it for at least a month." LMFAO.

strengthlevel.com

Weightlifting Strength Standards - Strength Level

Strength standard tables of one-rep max performance against bodyweight. Available for gym exercises including bench press, squat and deadlift.
strengthlevel.com strengthlevel.com

But at my strongest, my bench has been at advanced and both squat and DL at Intermediate. Bent over rows at high intermediate. And this while also training cardio/running/combat sports. Clearly my form on oly lifts still sucks ass. No way could I power snatch 1 x BW but I could MAYBE do 140ish which is close to intermediate.

But back to your OP, why are you doing barbell DL? IIRC didn't you injure your back last year and have been doing rehab? If you just injured it attempting 70 kg/154 lbs, DL probably shouldn't be in your routine, considering you're in otherwise good shape and I know you also train oly lifts. For perspective, the strengthlevel.com DL standard for "beginner" (lowest category) is just over 1 x BW. What are your numbers on snatch and C&J now?
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I typically don‘t DL. I snatch and squat. But I messed up my shoulder boxing and aggravated it with snatching like a month ago. So I figured I would DL while my shoulder gets better.

And yes I am aware that I shouldn‘t hurt my back DL 70Kg it‘s pathetic. My back has been healed for quite a while from the previous hernia and I have DL 70Kg in the past no problem, but that was barefoot powerlifting DL. This time I tried the „Oly snatch DL“ with weightlifting shoes, ass above knee and shoulders in front of bar. This places a LOT more pressure on the back than the powerlifting DL.

My conclusion here is that my natural ceiling on the snatch is like 50Kg. I‘ll never snatch 70Kg.

To answer your question I have been snatching 40Kg for the past 6 months or so.
 
KBE6EKCTAH_CCP said:
I typically don‘t DL. I snatch and squat. But I messed up my shoulder boxing and aggravated it with snatching like a month ago. So I figured I would DL while my shoulder gets better.

And yes I am aware that I shouldn‘t hurt my back DL 70Kg it‘s pathetic. My back has been healed for quite a while from the previous hernia and I have DL 70Kg in the past no problem, but that was barefoot powerlifting DL. This time I tried the „Oly snatch DL“ with weightlifting shoes, ass above knee and shoulders in front of bar. This places a LOT more pressure on the back than the powerlifting DL.

My conclusion here is that my natural ceiling on the snatch is like 50Kg. I‘ll never snatch 70Kg.

To answer your question I have been snatching 40Kg for the past 6 months or so.
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Weightlifting shoes for Deads can shift you forwards a little compared to normal

Try doing them without the lifting shoes, for me compared to normal DL the only difference is the grip, otherwise i treat it the same as any normal DL.


Or try doing the rack / Block variation of them instead
 
rikwebb said:
Weightlifting shoes for Deads can shift you forwards a little compared to normal

Try doing them without the lifting shoes, for me compared to normal DL the only difference is the grip, otherwise i treat it the same as any normal DL.


Or try doing the rack / Block variation of them instead
Click to expand...
Yep the „olympic variation“ is different. When i feel up for it I will DL barefoot again.
 
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