Economy Stockton Universal Basic Income Outcomes

[panamaican]

You ever consider that people turn to drugs because their life is shitty and if they had the money to make better choices it wouldn't be that way?

Escapism is a real thing.

 

[JohnnySagebrush]

You could argue the changes to the child tax credit could be a significant development to if that really does become monthly payments administered by SSA.

The reality is UBI is just a dumbed down form of the progressive tax system and redistribution we have today. What would be better is if the government could find more efficient ways to handle redistribution on more frequently intervals than each year on a tax return. We have some ways of doing that like estimating income withholdings but for the lower income brackets, there is room to improve on getting them the money monthly. That should really be the goal for at least the left leaning folks who like UBI. I don’t think it encompasses all supporters of it though but government does need to invest way more in being very good at funding specific groups quickly as possible if needed. It would help us in the long run with any crises that arise too.

Very good point about child tax credit, and what UBI is in essence.
Financially, i think it will become a necessity for perpetuating the current economic system. I’m not advocating it, just observing.

 

[HereticBD]

You ever consider that people turn to drugs because their life is shitty and if they had the money to make better choices it wouldn't be that way?

There is some rationale to that, but rich people like getting fucked up on hard drugs all the same. The main culprit is human nature. We like to get fucked up. The difference between those two situations is that one can afford to be a drug addict and the other can't, so one winds up in the gutter, and the other doesn't.

 

[kenetics]

We already give people welfare

They should give actually money to the people to spend. Let the individual decide if they want the money that matches basic welfare income or what their getting now.

 

[ultramanhyata]

I have only read the data on this one and mincom study from the 70's -- if you have ones that are more detailed that analyzes post cut off data, id be happy to read them

I don't have direct links to the data but here are some of the studies to which I was referring.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/map-basic-income-experiments-world/

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

I don't have direct links to the data but here are some of the studies to which I was referring.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/map-basic-income-experiments-world/

Yep, im currently reading the recent Finnish and Ontario experiments

 

[wlu.29]

Did you read the white paper?
https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...rst+Year_Final+Report_Individual+Pages+-2.pdf

Each month, aggregate spending data were collected from the prepaid debit card to determine how recipients spent the $500. Those data were categorized into merchant category codes (MCC) that corresponded to the transaction type. For example, Costco had a MCC of “wholesale clubs” and was categorized as “sales or merchandise.” Safeway had a MCC of “supermarket” and was categorized as “food.”

This assumes that you only buy food at costco/safeway

However I do find these results encouraging

In February 2019, 28% of recipients had full-time employment. One year later, 40% of recipients were employed fulltime. In contrast, the control group saw only a 5% increase in full-time employment over the same one-year period - 32% of those in the control group were employed full-time in February 2019; one year later, 37% of control group participants were employed full-time.

 

[bobgeese]

Somehow I doubt those people are representative of what would happen if you gave the average poor person $500.


Call me skeptical

 

[chardog]

should I care about people's vices?

45K is hardly livable in california, if I DONT HAVE PAY FOR IT, wouldn't mind if people got more money. If the government continues to dogpile on my tax dollars, then fuck that.

 

[panamaican]

Each month, aggregate spending data were collected from the prepaid debit card to determine how recipients spent the $500. Those data were categorized into merchant category codes (MCC) that corresponded to the transaction type. For example, Costco had a MCC of “wholesale clubs” and was categorized as “sales or merchandise.” Safeway had a MCC of “supermarket” and was categorized as “food.”

This assumes that you only buy food at costco/safeway

However I do find these results encouraging

In February 2019, 28% of recipients had full-time employment. One year later, 40% of recipients were employed fulltime. In contrast, the control group saw only a 5% increase in full-time employment over the same one-year period - 32% of those in the control group were employed full-time in February 2019; one year later, 37% of control group participants were employed full-time.

I'm neither critiquing nor endorsing it. I'm just sharing it. People can make their own conclusions, I just prefer that they're informed conclusions and not hand-wringing about alcohol and tobacco sales.

 

[wlu.29]

I'm neither critiquing nor endorsing it. I'm just sharing it. People can make their own conclusions, I just prefer that they're informed conclusions and not hand-wringing about alcohol and tobacco sales.

i think overall conclusions are positive

 

[terrapin]

There is some rationale to that, but rich people like getting fucked up on hard drugs all the same. The main culprit is human nature. We like to get fucked up. The difference between those two situations is that one can afford to be a drug addict and the other can't, so one winds up in the gutter, and the other doesn't.

I got busted for possession of marajuana when i was 18. Guy ahead of me busted for cocain. He had a good lawyer and got a slap on the wrist. I got fines, 140 hours or community service and 100 aa meetings.

The system is rigged against the poor.

 

[Limit Smasher]

Not necessarily. People who are already drinking and smoking aren't going to randomly increase their consumption just because they have more money.

 

[Renard]

I got busted for possession of marajuana when i was 18. Guy ahead of me busted for cocain. He had a good lawyer and got a slap on the wrist. I got fines, 140 hours or community service and 100 aa meetings.

The system is rigged against the poor.

Too many factors. Quantities of each drug involved, how much each person revealed or admitted to police, circumstances of the arrest, aggravating factors in the case, etc. A good lawyer is just one factor.

 

[HereticBD]

I got busted for possession of marajuana when i was 18. Guy ahead of me busted for cocain. He had a good lawyer and got a slap on the wrist. I got fines, 140 hours or community service and 100 aa meetings.

The system is rigged against the poor.

Sure, but that isn't the reason for addiction.

 

[terrapin]

Sure, but that isn't the reason for addiction.

who said it was? the point is that the poor get worse fines and worse convictions for lesser crimes than the upper middle class and wealthy. that isn't justice and it further keeps the poor down. its a terrible system.

 

[terrapin]

Too many factors. Quantities of each drug involved, how much each person revealed or admitted to police, circumstances of the arrest, aggravating factors in the case, etc. A good lawyer is just one factor.

everything but quantity is explained by having a good lawyer or not. i revealed nothing until i had a court appointed lawyer who told me to plead guilty or i would get a much harsher sentence (that is the basic scam the justice system runs). i had a joint when i got busted. no amount of cocain should be a lesser conviction than a single joint.

 

[Snackbar]

There is nothing "universal" about giving 500 bucks a month only to those below 45k earnings, just like there is nothing "universal" about child tax benefits that cut off at an income threshold. These programs are nothing more than expanded welfare and wealth redistribution.

 

[K1levelgrappler]

It’ll never happen in the US in a major way because a significant amount of the population would rather eat shit than see people they think of as undeserving get something for free, especially if those people look, worship or speak differently the they do.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

There is nothing "universal" about giving 500 bucks a month only to those below 45k earnings, just like there is nothing "universal" about child tax benefits that cut off at an income threshold. These programs are nothing more than expanded welfare and wealth redistribution.

The experiments are for sure more tilted to expanded welfare. They would need higher income earners in their test groups to get the Universal aspect.