Sugar Ray Leonard Would Beat Everyone From 140-168

[bjl12]

Golovkin would have been an interesting fight for Ray. I do struggle to think of other active fighters who'd be bad fights for Leonard. Canelo is on the level but not a good style to beat Ray.

I think a prime Lara frustrates Ray at points but SRL still wins (clearly). Lara was very, very good but never got the accolades because of his spoiler style.

Cant even see GGG going 12 rounds let alone 15 with SRL. He gets hit cleanly far too often and struggled with a variety of boxers including Jacobs, Canelo, and Dervenchenko. Just cant see GGG maintaining against a SRL who had a better engine, better chin, better offense, better defense, and performed his best against better competition.

 

[Seano]

I think a prime Lara frustrates Ray at points but SRL still wins (clearly). Lara was very, very good but never got the accolades because of his spoiler style.

Cant even see GGG going 12 rounds let alone 15 with SRL. He gets hit cleanly far too often and struggled with a variety of boxers including Jacobs, Canelo, and Dervenchenko. Just cant see GGG maintaining against a SRL who had a better engine, better chin, better offense, better defense, and performed his best against better competition.

I think Benitez was better at everything Lara does and then some. I can't see any way a stinker like Lara could win a decision vs a dynamo like Ray.

 

[JayE]

He might have some trouble with the size difference against some SMWs. Otherwise, probably.

 

[JayE]

I think a prime Lara frustrates Ray at points but SRL still wins (clearly). Lara was very, very good but never got the accolades because of his spoiler style.

Cant even see GGG going 12 rounds let alone 15 with SRL. He gets hit cleanly far too often and struggled with a variety of boxers including Jacobs, Canelo, and Dervenchenko. Just cant see GGG maintaining against a SRL who had a better engine, better chin, better offense, better defense, and performed his best against better competition.

Lara could cause Leonard a lot of problems from the outside, but once Ray figured out that Lara couldn't hurt him, he'd walk Lara down, crowd him, and do some real damage. Lara shells up too much when he's crowded on the inside.

 

[Mr2urbo]

I think a prime Lara frustrates Ray at points but SRL still wins (clearly). Lara was very, very good but never got the accolades because of his spoiler style.

Cant even see GGG going 12 rounds let alone 15 with SRL. He gets hit cleanly far too often and struggled with a variety of boxers including Jacobs, Canelo, and Dervenchenko. Just cant see GGG maintaining against a SRL who had a better engine, better chin, better offense, better defense, and performed his best against better competition.

Angulo gave Lara hell in the corner, and even dropped him too, SRL would unload on Lara in the corner the ref would jump in to save Lara’s life

 

[mozfonky]

judging fights is subjective. it all depends on what you're looking at... the official judging was very controversial too.

the thing with leonard is, most times he was normally in the center of the ring....you are right, he was not a pure defensive boxer like sweet pea, but he was counter-puncher with great defense who relied on maintaining distance. duran on the other hand, was a brawler...that was not sugar ray's style. ray was not a seek and destroy type guy...he was primarily a boxer-puncher. it was not that duran was able to impose his style on leonard. if you watch the fight, you see there are moments when leonard is able to easily keep duran at bay and counter effectively. but in this fight leonard WANTED a firefight. he sought out trench warfare, which was not his strong suit. he said afterwards it was the things duran had said about his wife that made him angry. he wanted to beat up duran, humiliate duran at his own game and furthermore, he wanted to shock and surprise duran by showing he was the tougher guy. and he did prove his toughness throughout the fight... in one round, i think it was 12 or 13, they are going toe to toe and it's leonard who beats duran back and hurts duran. he was outslugging the slugger.

but in the fight, leonard took a while to get going...the middle rounds were mostly duran because duran kept wrestling and brawling srl against the ropes and basically preventing ray from doing much. as the fight wore on, leonard started to get in more of his power shots, basically learning on the job...duran still had good moments. as i said, i scored it for srl...if they had the rule back then judges could not score an even round, i think it would be a toss-up or close for srl.

I'll watch the fight again soon but I swear, even if it was close, who did most of the aggression? Who's back was against the ropes the most and who controlled the pace of the fight. It was just Duran's night.

On a light note, it's great to see them today:

 

[Mob69]

Ray Leonard is the greatest P4P boxer to ever live if you go by the eyeball test. He had vicious power in both hands, seemingly endless cardio, jaw dropping hand speed, and a granite chin.

There are plenty of boxers who have had these attributes, and demonstrated them for longer periods. Leonard is the greatest fighter I’ve ever seen - so in my mind the best from the 80s to the present - but very few hardcore boxing fans would put him in the same category as Robinson, Armstrong, Greb, or Langford.

 

[Mob69]

SRL was an excellent all around fighter, he can win fights in the pocket, in mid range and outside, his cockiness would lead him to beating his opponents at their own game

Could fight off the front foot, the back foot, lead, counter, blisteringly fast combinations, head movement, footwork, great shot selection, lethal finisher, chin, heart, will, could dig himself out of a hole, fight IQ, knew how to impress the judges to take close rounds…

 

[BluntTrauma21]

Man I love SRL so much.

 

[bjl12]

Angulo gave Lara hell in the corner, and even dropped him too, SRL would unload on Lara in the corner the ref would jump in to save Lara’s life

Totally forgot about the Angulo fight. Nevermind, youre right

 

[brundlefly]

I think a prime Lara frustrates Ray at points but SRL still wins (clearly). Lara was very, very good but never got the accolades because of his spoiler style.

Cant even see GGG going 12 rounds let alone 15 with SRL. He gets hit cleanly far too often and struggled with a variety of boxers including Jacobs, Canelo, and Dervenchenko. Just cant see GGG maintaining against a SRL who had a better engine, better chin, better offense, better defense, and performed his best against better competition.

Agree, lara was/is one of my favorite fighters ever...he was among the most overlooked fighter of the past generation...partly because of his style as you mentioned, but mainly because of the lack of a cuban boxing fan base.

 

[brundlefly]

There are plenty of boxers who have had these attributes, and demonstrated them for longer periods. Leonard is the greatest fighter I’ve ever seen - so in my mind the best from the 80s to the present - but very few hardcore boxing fans would put him in the same category as Robinson, Armstrong, Greb, or Langford.

ok, so the part when you talk about robinson, armstrong, greb and langford is problematic for me.

robinson is recognized as the pfp icon of boxing. but to say srl doesn't belong in the same category is simply false...robinson named kid gavilan as one of his toughest opponents and srl eclipses gavilan.

armstrong is another atg, but losses to fritzie zivic and lou ambers, even though armstrong was probablhy past his prime at the time, prove to me he was not outside of leonard's league.

harry greb is a mystery to me and i have no idea why people keep bringing up this guy. nobody alive today has ever seen him fight. all we have is his record and reports of his fights.

i dont think you can compare guys like langford and greb with today's fighters...just a different era.

 

[mozfonky]

ok, so the part when you talk about robinson, armstrong, greb and langford is problematic for me.

robinson is recognized as the pfp icon of boxing. but to say srl doesn't belong in the same category is simply false...robinson named kid gavilan as one of his toughest opponents and srl eclipses gavilan.

armstrong is another atg, but losses to fritzie zivic and lou ambers, even though armstrong was probablhy past his prime at the time, prove to me he was not outside of leonard's league.

harry greb is a mystery to me and i have no idea why people keep bringing up this guy. nobody alive today has ever seen him fight. all we have is his record and reports of his fights.

i dont think you can compare guys like langford and greb with today's fighters...just a different era.

Robinson just had so many fights with so many fighters of all levels that it's almost not even fair to compare him to a guy who fought until, 25-26, retired, then never fought as well again. Robinson proved more, it's simple as that. Definitely in the chin and heart department. Ok, Ray was a mean, tough SOB but Ray did all that he did times 10.

Sure he'd be a good match for Robinson or anyone else but I don't think he did enough to be THE ATG. Robinson was a lot taller and longer, probably a better puncher and neither were defensive wizzes but Robinson is called the best for a lot of reasons. Leonard had his accomplishments and beat the other stars of his era, didn't fight a lot of the other top fighters who would have been no walkover. Curry at his best, Starling, McCrory and maybe middleweight fights with Mugabi, McCallum. If he'd even fought all those guys he'd probably have diminished even faster than he did. Remember, he was also getting beaten to pillar and post by Norris at 34, Robinson won the title a time or two after 34 and fought on even terms with the best in his division until his forties.

 

[mozfonky]

I'm watching the first Leonard Duran fight now. I wouldn't put it in the class of Ali-Frazier one or a lot of other great fights. A lot of wrestling, not that many clean punches landed by either guy which isn't bad, elite fighters might make a chess match out of a fight but there is just too much clinching in it. Duran has dominated it up to the ten rounds I've watched, I realize ray comes back in the end but it isn't enough. Duran also controlled the fight, I've only seen him with his back to the ropes once so far and he's the smaller man. he also is fighting too close for Ray's comfort, Ray is throwing a ton of punches over Duran's head, good strategic fight but for action, I've seen better. Arguello Pryor and Ali Frazier are just a couple.

One big mistake Leonard makes over and over is backing straightup, I know he was aware that he shouldn't do that but maybe the pressure just got to him, duran's feet were fast enough to do that.

 

[defjaam]

I'm watching the first Leonard Duran fight now. I wouldn't put it in the class of Ali-Frazier one or a lot of other great fights. A lot of wrestling, not that many clean punches landed by either guy which isn't bad, elite fighters might make a chess match out of a fight but there is just too much clinching in it. Duran has dominated it up to the ten rounds I've watched, I realize ray comes back in the end but it isn't enough. Duran also controlled the fight, I've only seen him with his back to the ropes once so far and he's the smaller man. he also is fighting too close for Ray's comfort, Ray is throwing a ton of punches over Duran's head, good strategic fight but for action, I've seen better. Arguello Pryor and Ali Frazier are just a couple.

One big mistake Leonard makes over and over is backing straightup, I know he was aware that he shouldn't do that but maybe the pressure just got to him, duran's feet were fast enough to do that.

Round 11 now, could go to the scorecards... You think I should put some dough on that Leonard guy everyone is talking about?

 

[mozfonky]

Round 11 now, could go to the scorecards... You think I should put some dough on that Leonard guy everyone is talking about?

Ray did a bit more late in the fight but I still think it was a clear win for Roberto. Ray had a sensible strategy, being two divisions bigger, it just didn't turn out like he wanted. The way not to go back to the ropes is not to back up and the way not to back up is to assert your will and strength, for whatever reason, he didn't. He should have been stronger but he didn't fight as if he was.

 

[defjaam]

Ray did a bit more late in the fight but I still think it was a clear win for Roberto. Ray had a sensible strategy, being two divisions bigger, it just didn't turn out like he wanted. The way not to go back to the ropes is not to back up and the way not to back up is to assert your will and strength, for whatever reason, he didn't. He should have been stronger but he didn't fight as if he was.

I find the difference between high level boxers and lower level boxers that fight off of their back foot fascinating... Recently I watched Tommy's son Ronald Hearns vs. Felix Sturm.
And while Ronald was looking good technically, he really wasn't inflicting any pain. Most people are probably better advised to have more of a brawling approach when they take up boxing, and improve from there.

Trying to imitate Robinson, Ali or Leonard? You'll likely fall flat on your nose.

 

[brundlefly]

I'm watching the first Leonard Duran fight now. I wouldn't put it in the class of Ali-Frazier one or a lot of other great fights. A lot of wrestling, not that many clean punches landed by either guy which isn't bad, elite fighters might make a chess match out of a fight but there is just too much clinching in it. Duran has dominated it up to the ten rounds I've watched, I realize ray comes back in the end but it isn't enough. Duran also controlled the fight, I've only seen him with his back to the ropes once so far and he's the smaller man. he also is fighting too close for Ray's comfort, Ray is throwing a ton of punches over Duran's head, good strategic fight but for action, I've seen better. Arguello Pryor and Ali Frazier are just a couple.

One big mistake Leonard makes over and over is backing straightup, I know he was aware that he shouldn't do that but maybe the pressure just got to him, duran's feet were fast enough to do that.

i agree there was a lot of mauling and wrestling going on, esp the middle rounds....like i said in an earlier post, it was in those rounds duran had the advantage. when they exchanged punches, especially as the fight wore on, leonard seems to come out on top in in a majority of the cases.

i don't agree that it was the best strategy for leonard, in fact, if i wasn't aware of the backstory, i would think he didn't seem to really have a strategy. also disagree it was a clear win for duran, and although leonard is taller and duran had most of his run at lw, in this fight they look to be about the same size.

 

[brundlefly]

I find the difference between high level boxers and lower level boxers that fight off of their back foot fascinating... Recently I watched Tommy's son Ronald Hearns vs. Felix Sturm.
And while Ronald was looking good technically, he really wasn't inflicting any pain. Most people are probably better advised to have more of a brawling approach when they take up boxing, and improve from there.

Trying to imitate Robinson, Ali or Leonard? You'll likely fall flat on your nose.

ali, robinson, leonard, etc are not easy styles to master...there's a lot of athleticism involved. tremendous coordination required, not to mention precision techniques and multi-tasking such as slipping and countering while at the same time trying to maintain distance by circling the ring...but if a guy can get it right, he's gonna be hard to beat.

 

[mozfonky]

i agree there was a lot of mauling and wrestling going on, esp the middle rounds....like i said in an earlier post, it was in those rounds duran had the advantage. when they exchanged punches, especially as the fight wore on, leonard seems to come out on top in in a majority of the cases.

i don't agree that it was the best strategy for leonard, in fact, if i wasn't aware of the backstory, i would think he didn't seem to really have a strategy. also disagree it was a clear win for duran, and although leonard is taller and duran had most of his run at lw, in this fight they look to be about the same size.

Very clear win for Duran in my book.