I'm cherry-picking that which is relevant to the discussion. Why do they keep an element of the sport that is neglected anyway? There are bjj clubs that never spar takedowns, they only drill them step by step. There is no way you learn takedowns without active resistance/ sparring.
Takedowns
- Thread starter thugpoet
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I'm cherry-picking that which is relevant to the discussion. Why do they keep an element of the sport that is neglected anyway? There are bjj clubs that never spar takedowns, they only drill them step by step. There is no way you learn takedowns without active resistance/ sparring.
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Ouchi gari
You don't. But you will never have an informed opinion unless you actually train and get serious.
The validity of my claims are independent of who says them, dumbass.
Even if they got rid of takedown points, or banned takedowns entirely, pulling guard is still a technique. If you just sit down haphazardly, you'll lose.
If it went the the extreme that you're suggesting, it would still start standing, if only to give each player the chance to try to enter their own preferred guard.
If it went the the extreme that you're suggesting, it would still start standing, if only to give each player the chance to try to enter their own preferred guard.
I don't agree with @esteven that balance and explosiveness is acquired. I have done extensive training in striking for 5 years and it is flat out false. It is not something you get through training. I have also trained wrestling in school against guys who train it.
That's why I asked how come grappling on the ground doesn't correlate more with grappling standing. The answer most likely lies in the fact that people who have better explosiveness and balance are drawn to wrestling+ bjj, while people who lack those traits mostly do BJJ.
That's why I asked how come grappling on the ground doesn't correlate more with grappling standing. The answer most likely lies in the fact that people who have better explosiveness and balance are drawn to wrestling+ bjj, while people who lack those traits mostly do BJJ.
They could both start sitting just like they do in clubs. What's the problem?
Sure. But you would be able to understand why your claims are invalid if you trained.
I.E You can say whatever you want about gravity, but you would be more likely to actually say valid things if you studied physics.
So attack the claims, not the person. You can't do that because you're a simple minded primate.
The problem is that's not a competitive starting position. Gym rounds are able to start that way because there's a custom to semi-cooperatively establish who will play from the bottom, and who from the top. In competition, no one will concede this. If they start on their knees, they will either wrestle for takedowns and guard-pulls from the knees, or one or both will stand up. If they both start seated, the same thing will happen from there.
To start in a neutral and symmetrical position while allowing each competitor to deny the other their preferred guard or top position, standing is the least awkward option, regardless of takedown ability.
My balance and coordination - and nearly every other salient attribute - have improved with practice and exercise. I think you probably just didn't train enough or well enough to make noticeable improvements.
There definitely is a selection bias, but at the hobbyist or amateur level, it's not nearly as impactful as you think.
Let's just ignore if it does or not. Why doesn't ground grappling overlap more with stand-up grappling, was my question? It seems to me axiomatic all great wrestlers become good at BJJ, even with limited training, but not all good at BJJ become good at wrestling (this logic is sound btw).
I have at least not heard of any wrestler who excelled in wrestling but sucked doing BJJ, but I have heard of the other way around.
Wasn't there a rule change made a couple of years ago that nullified the takedown aspect of BJJ? I can't remember what it was. Did they lower the points for takedowns? Some change happened which people predicted would kill the stand-up of BJJ.
Nope. The only recent significant rule change (I assume you mean IBJJF rules) regarding the standing phase was an increased penalization of double guard pulls (that's where both competitors pull guard, with neither taking a top position). If anything, that's a slight move in favor of takedowns, rather than against them.
What i find puzzling is that there is rarely any fight over who's to take the bottom position. There has to be match-ups where both want to be in bottom position and a double guard pull ensues.
What I see 99% in competition is one pulling guard and the other complying almost like a friendly sparring session. I guess they're versatile enough that they don't care but it's still strange to me if you wanted to be in bottom yourself.
Seems to favor more dead draws since both get warned for it. At least if that's nature of the match from beginning to end. No reason to risk a takedown you aren't confident in if you can get a draw
There arw no draws. The result is a double disqualification.
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The hardest thing about takedowns is that, just like any other technique, you can't just "know them" and hope to apply them. The standing game is its own separate entity from the ground game and it requires knowledge of how it works as well as many hours of practice to get good at. To apply any takedown, you need to be aware of not only your own positioning and balance, but also your opponent's position, posture, where his weight is going, and how he's going to react. A really good book on this is "The Judo Advantage" by Steve Scott. Your takedowns will also change if they're wearing a gi, if they're much stronger... there's a lot to think about.
With that being said, the "easier" takedowns are ones that require few moving parts and more control of the opponent's body overall. Double legs are a good example of this, as are things like body lock takedowns or duck unders. Throws and foot sweeps, while still great takedowns, are much more difficult to get if you're not super proficient at them. They are difficult to set up and you have to have a good sense of timing for them, as well as good technique.
Anyway, here are some you can look at:
No gi: Slideby/throwby/Shuck, ankle pick, snapdown, and armdrag to ko-uchi-gari.
Gi: Collar drag, tomoe nage, ankle pick
With that being said, the "easier" takedowns are ones that require few moving parts and more control of the opponent's body overall. Double legs are a good example of this, as are things like body lock takedowns or duck unders. Throws and foot sweeps, while still great takedowns, are much more difficult to get if you're not super proficient at them. They are difficult to set up and you have to have a good sense of timing for them, as well as good technique.
Anyway, here are some you can look at:
No gi: Slideby/throwby/Shuck, ankle pick, snapdown, and armdrag to ko-uchi-gari.
Gi: Collar drag, tomoe nage, ankle pick
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The collar drag is my favorite in the gi, since I'm a big guy and gravity is on my side. Popping back up and taking top position straight away is ideal, but I can usually at least get to a good open or closed guard situation from there even if not. Not foolproof since super athletic guys sometimes beat it, but is still high percentage for me.
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Completely different martial philosophies. You Sherdog Guru you.
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