Targeted/Cyclical Ketogenic Diet for BJJ/MMA/MT?

[BladeLD]

Hey everybody,

I got fat!

2-3 years ago I was an avid competitor in BJJ, Wrestling etc. with a weight of 145-163 pounds (height 5'7").

However, a bunch of injuries led to my retirement from competition and the beginning of competitive drinking and womanizing. I didn't train much, didn't sleep much, but ate and drank a lot. I also got a job (I was at university before) and started my own business.

A year ago I got a girlfriend and we eat too often potato chips, chocolate, nachos, pizza and everything I didn't even THINK about couple of years ago.
I weight about 185 lbs now, mostly around the core, fortunately I didn't gain in the face.

I started a Keto diet in February and lost 10 pounds in 6 weeks, but quickly regained when I started to eat normal again and went from Cardio and Lifting with Keto to BJJ/MMA/MT with High Carbs.

When I undereat I feel very bad in training (no gas tank, gassing hard), but when I overeat I only get fatter.

Has anybody ever successfully tried to combine a CKD/TKD with training in BJJ/Muay Thai/MMA?

Best wishes
(I'm kinda ashamed reading this after posting, wtf happened to me and my discipline)

 

[Tug]

i do a "half" targeted keto diet at the moment (post but no pre carbs). here are the principles based on my own experiences so far:

1. no pre-workout carbs - just eat a nice hearty keto meal an hour or so before with plenty of fat. that is not to say you should avoid carbs at all, just don't eat a ton before training like targeted would have you do. i am actually sceptical as to whether pre-workout carbs work at all. i am also currently experimenting with fat loading, i.e. 3 shots of heavy cream or bulletproof coffee before training. not sure how effective it is though.

2. post workout dextrose! - in my opinion 15-20g of dextrose after training is crucial to making a keto diet and exercise sustainable in the long term. your muscles need glycogen, and this will help you shake off the fatigued feeling after training, and get you ready for the next session. this will not knock you out of keto either.

3. buy some ketostix and experiment- this is so you can find your daily carb intake. you can probably handle more than you think. i can eat up to 70-100g of carbs a day and stay in keto. don't be shy with carbs, they are your friend in moderation.

4. supplements - i can't recommend creatine enough for endurance when on keto. having started to use it a few months ago, i would go so far as to say it's a must have with keto. i have also just started using beta alanine, but will refrain from recommending it til i've used it a while longer.

doing the above i train muay thai 4 times a week, only totaling 6 hours though. i am a beginner but am more than capable of keeping up with the rest of the class while in keto. bear in mind that your fitness may just be bad as well and you may need to tweak it for your own body; and rest assured, people on carbs get gassed and tired too!

 

[BladeLD]

Ok thank you for the help, why wouldn't you use the pre-workout carbs?

It's not just a fitness thing, bear in mind I've been lifting weights and boxing for over 10 years and BJJ/MMA/Wrestling for 5 years, so it's not like I'm not used to training. My resting heart rate is around 50-55. I just really feel that it's hard to establish any diet as my blood sugar levels get out of whack easily with any type of diet - or I eat something small and then overeat endlessly.

 

[Tug]

quite simply i've just never found pre workout carbs to work for me. i've tried various amounts, various GI levels, and various timings before training, and just haven't managed to feel any benefit from them.

regarding your appetite, i feel the same way, and that is why keto works for me because i feel fuller for longer and more satisfied. on a regular carb diet i never feel full and will snack compulsively. that's basically the main selling point of the diet. and you don't have to worry about blood sugar, or carb crashes in the afternoon etc.

 

[KILL KILL]

Instead of cutting carbs, have you tried just eating less?

 

[BladeLD]

Instead of cutting carbs, have you tried just eating less?

lol. yeah and that's what kinda sucks, I mostly eat in a Leangains-intermittent fasting pattern (16-8), but only seem to get fatter, my body doesn't work like martin berkhan's haha

I only seem to lose weight on a) massive amounts of training (12+ hours weekly) or b) zero carb diets

 

[Tug]

don't go zero carb mate, just low enough to get in keto

 

[therealdope]

Instead of cutting carbs, have you tried just eating less?

Kinda what I was thinking.

 

[KILL KILL]

lol. yeah and that's what kinda sucks, I mostly eat in a Leangains-intermittent fasting pattern (16-8), but only seem to get fatter, my body doesn't work like martin berkhan's haha

I only seem to lose weight on a) massive amounts of training (12+ hours weekly) or b) zero carb diets

Well that's also a problem. For the most part, scientific evidence is against intermittent fasting.

http://www.alanaragon.com/an-objective-look-at-intermittent-fasting.html

For short term weight loss, it can work well, but in the long run, people tend to over compensate by eating more calories overall.

 

[KILL KILL]

I'm also not such a big fan of ketogenic diets either. The amount of carbohydrates you consume should coincide with your activity level. it's also been shown that anaerobic performance decreases while in ketosis.

http://smartsixpacks.com/ketogenic-diet-plan

For some reason, people take everything to extremes. If a study points out that the average American eats between 50-75 pounds of sugar / carbs a year, and it may be the cause to numerous health issues, people will take it as "That guy said we should eat fewer carbs, so ZERO carbs should be AWESOME!"

When in reality, there is no need to take it that far, because you'll only be hurting your performance. There are far better ways to do it.

For instance, one of the BEST things I've EVER done for my health was to sign up for a myfitnesspal account and begin tracking everything I ate. It's absolutely amazing at how quickly you can manipulate the body if you're doing things the right way.

 

[BladeLD]

KILL KILL, I think you're right with both post 1 and post 2. You seem like a smart dude, I've been reading good posts of you for years now.

I'm not happy with IF either, it helped me for a short time but caused me to yo-yo diet a lot.

What's special about myfitnesspal compared to other apps?

 

[Sinister]

FWIW, consuming less carbohydrate IS eating less. And by my experience, fighters I've had use low-carb nutrition didn't suffer any more performance-wise than those in caloric deficits enough to facilitate the weight loss they required (but not abiding by low-carb guidelines). Which would make sense considering the ones using low-carb nutrition ended up in similar caloric deficits. I think people also make the mistake of thinking too much in extremes when thinking of anyone using a ketogenic diet in an athletic capacity.

 

[KILL KILL]

KILL KILL, I think you're right with both post 1 and post 2. You seem like a smart dude, I've been reading good posts of you for years now.

I'm not happy with IF either, it helped me for a short time but caused me to yo-yo diet a lot.

What's special about myfitnesspal compared to other apps?

I don't know, it's just the one I use. It allows you to set your macro guidelines and has a massive database of different foods.

Up until I started using it, I never tracked calories or macros. I would simply eat high protein, moderate to low carbohydrates, and moderate fat. By tracking everything, I've become more precise and don't fall victim to over eating or missing targets.

 

[immovablestone]

Has anybody ever successfully tried to combine a CKD/TKD with training in BJJ/Muay Thai/MMA?

I use a SKD (70-80%fat, never over ~25g carbs) with BJJ/JJJ and strength+gymnastic training and do just fine. I took an initial hit in performance as I adapted, but if you really do your research and know wtf you're doing with your food intake and wtf is happening in your body when you do, you can get right back to where you were and then can then enjoy the benefits of nutritional ketosis along with the extreme nutrient density of the foods you're eating.