Teacher who called military 'lowest of the low' is fired

[jamel]

I mean you're right, they obviously count in that they are taking the place of a real teacher for the day. I just mean that it is an entirely different pool of people. Teachers pursue careers in education and go through schooling, then they are evaluated on a yearly basis. Subs are usually people without any qualifications who just show up for the day and teach a super-simplified lesson in the teacher's absence.

In order for a sub to be hired full-time, they would have to have all the pre-requisites that a teacher has. So that sub would not really be the typical sub, in most cases. But I'm sure there are some locations in the country that hire under-qualified people based on need.

My kids last school had the feds walk an assistant principal out in hand cuffs over fudging test scores. Thankfully I have friends that let me put my name on some bills so they can go to the next district over.

Crazy the difference a mile makes when discussing education.

 

[Byron Carter]

Aren't you guys usually members of the "free speech" brigade when private action clearly moves the topic out of the arena of free speech?

This is public action for statements made concurrent to instruction. This, despite how much it may outrage you, is a legitimate free speech case: a government employer punishing a personal opinion that didn't facially obstruct the performance of employment duties.

That this was a teacher carves out the protection a tad, but if this was virtually any other government job, this would be a slam dunk 1A challenge.

We finally have an actual free speech case, and all the "muh free speech" clan are cheering.



@alanb @Quipling @woodguyatl @BKMMAFAN What do you guys think?

He had the freedom to say whatever he wanted.


His employer has the freedom to fire him.

 

[Trotsky]

He had the freedom to say whatever he wanted.


His employer has the right to fire him.

It's a public school district, genius. Under First Amendment law, that's a government employer, not a private employer. Being fired is considered state action constrained by the First Amendment. Just like the Fourth Amendment, you get higher protection (in the case of speech, much higher) when you are a public employee.

How is everyone on the right this bad at understanding free speech and constitutional rights?

 

[Byron Carter]

It's a public school district, genius. Under First Amendment law, that's a government employer, not a private employer.

How is everyone on the right this bad at understanding free speech and constitutional rights?

Government employers have a right to fire you.

The first amendment does not protect you from being terminated from a job.

Most states are "Right to work" in the United States, meaning that an employer doesn't even need a reason to fire you. They can literally tell this guy he's fired - and not give any reason at all.

 

[Trotsky]

Government employers have a right to fire you.

The first amendment does not protect you from being terminated from a job.

Most states are "Right to work" in the United States, meaning that an employer doesn't even need a reason to fire you. They can literally tell this guy he's fired - and not give any reason at all.

How fucking stupid can you be? No, they don't. Since about 1938,

Yes, you can be fired by a private employer for any speech whatsoever. No, you cannot be as liberally fired by a government employer for speech.

This has been settled law for more than half a century.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-spee...rs/government-employees-get-have-opinions-too
https://www.workplacefairness.org/retaliation-public-employees

If you're (a) a public employee, (b) speaking on an issue of public concern not directly related to your duties, and (c) the speech doesn't meaningfully prevent you from doing your job --> you're protected by the First Amendment.

Also, that's not what Right to Work is. You're describing "at-will employment."

Are you trolling me?

 

[BudKing8806]

We need military parades now. If you dare speak the truth about the military, exercising your freedom of speech you are fired. Gotta love the direction Trump is taking us in

Lol no one is saying that he can't say that. He just can't say that at work. It's a simple concept really.

 

[Byron Carter]

That's in reference to stuff you say outside of work, not pertaining to your job.

This guy was clearly referencing his students (his job), while at work.

He's not protected - and he shouldn't be.

Fuck him.

If this POS had said this stuff at his house, or at a bar - and not to a group of students - I'd be fine. It's free speech. His job shouldn't come into play.

 

[jonharrison]

Aren't you guys usually members of the "free speech" brigade when private action clearly moves the topic out of the arena of free speech?

This is public action for statements made concurrent to instruction. This, despite how much it may outrage you, is a legitimate free speech case: a government employer punishing a personal opinion that didn't facially obstruct the performance of employment duties.

That this was a teacher carves out the protection a tad, but if this was virtually any other government job, this would be a slam dunk 1A challenge.

We finally have an actual free speech case, and all the "muh free speech" clan are cheering.



@alanb @Quipling @woodguyatl @BKMMAFAN What do you guys think?

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the district state that his conduct was in violation of their code of ethics regarding creating a bullying environment for the student? You can argue whether the student legitimately felt bullied, but violating a code of conduct, even for government employees, is grounds for termination, despite the 1A, no?

 

[Seano]

Yeah I really can't remember a single time a teacher made a political statement in class. They are pretty directly instructed not to, at least around here. The guy in that video was a total asshole, he seemed like one of those guys that was never cool so he tries to make young kids think he's cool, to play out a lifelong fantasy of being cool. His 2nd shot at high school, lol.

I always thought those people were especially weird, because usually the older you get the more you realize nobody gives a shit if you were cool in high school, but for people like him it's the opposite.

Come on now. You know it goes on. There are countless videos on youtube of nutjob liberal teachers and professors flipping their shit at people.

 

[Mark Cutting]

I do have to say.. the US is moving in the direction on North Korea.

When we resort to cannibalism I'll consider your silly point

 

[Mark Cutting]

The teacher claims to be an intellectual yet he does not sound like one.

Anti-intellectual, actually. Generalizations are indicative of a low intellect.

 

[Mark Cutting]

I think that's how it is everywhere.

It's never the rich that are marched off to war.

I served with plenty of people from well to do families and backgrounds.

 

[Trotsky]

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the district state that his conduct was in violation of their code of ethics regarding creating a bullying environment for the student? You can argue whether the student legitimately felt bullied, but violating a code of conduct, even for government employees, is grounds for termination, despite the 1A, no?

No, codes of conduct are preempted by the First Amendment, as are findings pursuant to them.

If they can show that there was an objective bullying effect, though, then that could well justify the dismissal.

EDIT: Also, I forgive you.

 

[Trotsky]

I served with plenty of people from well to do families and backgrounds.

WWII and Vietnam were basically the only military engagements in US history where the upper class was represented to any meaningful degree.

Nowadays, there is a pretty considerable class divide in military enlistment.

 

[Mark Cutting]

WWII and Vietnam were basically the only military engagements in US history where the upper class was represented to any meaningful degree.

Nowadays, there is a pretty considerable class divide in military enlistment.

I was in from 95 to 2007. While there were plenty of us middle/lower class guys there were also plenty of guys that came from the upper crust. Not sure what the ratios would be. Be that as it may...the guy's rant was still off the mark and just reeked of insecurity. For every brick head floating around we had some really intelligent and bright guys, too. People shit on the "grunts" thinking it takes no brain power, but it's actually quite a complicated and very involved field. Never mind pilots, medics, sub drivers, etc...

Bottom line is the dude's a stroke. Fuck eem

 

[oldshadow]

Aren't you guys usually members of the "free speech" brigade when private action clearly moves the topic out of the arena of free speech?

This is public action for statements made concurrent to instruction. This, despite how much it may outrage you, is a legitimate free speech case: a government employer punishing a personal opinion that didn't facially obstruct the performance of employment duties.

That this was a teacher carves out the protection a tad, but if this was virtually any other government job, this would be a slam dunk 1A challenge.

We finally have an actual free speech case, and all the "muh free speech" clan are cheering.



@alanb @Quipling @woodguyatl @BKMMAFAN What do you guys think?

So you haven't been reading post here by me and others.

This is not a free speech issue. He was on his job when he said what he did and got fired for it the same as it happens in other jobs.

 

[Trotsky]

So you haven't been reading post here by me and others.

This is not a free speech issue. He was on his job when he said what he did and got fired for it the same as it happens in other jobs.

Why can't you guys just do a simple google before making uninformed statements?

Public employees like teachers are protected by the First Amendment from termination based on speech on public matters unless they are factually false or meaningfully foreclose performance of their job.

Teachers are protected to express all political views.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickering_v._Board_of_Education

 

[oldshadow]

Why can't you guys just do a simple google before making uninformed statements?

Public employees like teachers are protected by the First Amendment from termination based on speech on public matters unless they are factually false or meaningfully foreclose performance of their job.

Teachers are protected to express all political views.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickering_v._Board_of_Education

He was at his job he can not say anything he wants.

If he started talking KKK shit in class he would be fired and should be.

 

[nac386]

Come on now. You know it goes on. There are countless videos on youtube of nutjob liberal teachers and professors flipping their shit at people.

In colleges, of course. I think preaching politics is not only present in colleges, but has become problematic in some ways. But I really don't think it's all that common in grade school. There are probably times that it happens, but I think they are few and far between.

Honestly, the only two examples I can think of are the guy ranting about our military, and the teacher who flipped the kid out of his chair because he refused to stand up for the pledge of allegiance.

 

[Macktruckbuck]

I do have to say.. the US is moving in the direction on North Korea.