The greatest moral victories

[WHITE ANDERSON]

I think you need to broaden your view on the ways in which a moral victory can be achieved. The way in which TS is using it is fine. An underdog proving his worth and that his approach is valid against one of the best in the world can be called a moral victory.

what's moral about that?
he showed heart, he showed toughness in fighting, but that doesn't have anything to do with being moral. you might say those are good character traits to have in fighting, but those aren't necessarily moral traits.
jones has displayed heart and toughness in the cage but is clearly an immoral person.
i think you just need a clearer idea of what the word moral means. it's better when fewer people are ignorant.

 

[Herwald]

Devil's avocado?

I don't think Yair's stock went up. As an exciting fighter, sure, but it was always known. But the thing is - he came fresh off a long lay off, he's the same age as Max, he got controlled on the ground fairly easily by Max who is not known for being a grappler and, on the feet, which is Yair's bread and butter - Max kinda toyed with him also.

If Yair can't beat Max (who is behind his own wall having lost to the current champ twice) - not even in stand up, he has ground game problems, does not have the age excuse of still being a noob... there's just no forward momentum and big title hopes for him in the future. He was the one big star for the Mexican market and he's not able to comfortably beat the elite guys.

To me, he's a "can't miss" fighter of the likes of Luque and Gaethje, but in UFC it kind of is about contenders who can win the belt and we're starting to notice his ceiling. I wish him the best of luck and improvements, though.

 

[Sweater of AV]

what's moral about that?
he showed heart, he showed toughness in fighting, but that doesn't have anything to do with being moral. you might say those are good character traits to have in fighting, but those aren't necessarily moral traits.
jones has displayed heart and toughness in the cage but is clearly an immoral person.
i think you just need a clearer idea of what the word moral means. it's better when fewer people are ignorant.

You clearly don't understand. I'd be surprised if you understood what ignorant means.

Here, I'll leave you with actual definitions that will help you learn.

"If you say that someone has won a moral victory, you mean that although they have officially lost a contest or dispute, they have succeeded in showing they are right about something."

"A moral victory occurs when a person, team, army or other group loses a confrontation, and yet achieves some other moral gain. This gain might be unrelated to the confrontation in question, and the gain is often considerably less than what would have been accomplished if an actual victory had been achieved.

For example, a sports team that is a heavy underdog and loses narrowly to a superior opponent might claim a moral victory, acquitting themselves well even in defeat. A team that plays fairly and loses to a cheating team might also claim a moral victory in spite of the loss."

As I said, the way in which TS is using it is perfectly acceptable. I'm glad you learned a lesson here.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

Becoming a pariah and hated by everyone, but gets to pat himself on the back for not breaking the rules.

what's moral about that?
he showed heart, he showed toughness in fighting, but that doesn't have anything to do with being moral. you might say those are good character traits to have in fighting, but those aren't necessarily moral traits.
jones has displayed heart and toughness in the cage but is clearly an immoral person.
i think you just need a clearer idea of what the word moral means. it's better when fewer people are ignorant.

Moral victory includes, but is not limited to, a scale of morality. I think you're wrong here.

 

[ltarian11]

Calvin Kattar getting through the fight with Max.

 

[Nelly]

Arman, who was making his UFC debut, vs Islam, who was on a 4 fight win streak with the last 2 being finishes.

 

[ltarian11]

I think mods need to move this thread to the philosopher forum for the moral victory debate :>

 

[WHITE ANDERSON]

Becoming a pariah and hated by everyone, but gets to pat himself on the back for not breaking the rules.

Moral victory includes, but is not limited to, a scale of morality. I think you're wrong here.

people who cheat and break the rules must be punished
aljo bless

 

[Sweater of AV]

you just literally OWNED YOURSELF
sad americans with mcdonalds reading comprehension because they only order food in numbers

you say max and yair is a moral victory. tell me EXACTLY WHAT was the MORAL gain that yair made in that defeat? notice that your own example says the losing team looks good because the winning team cheated. the gain is moral here because the rules were violated. but you don't even understand your own example, SAD.

now tell me exactly how and what moral gains yair made in his defeat against max. he was tough and showed heart. those are not moral gains. DO IT NOW TELL ME THE MORAL GAINS NOW AND DON'T DUMB IT DOWN EXPLAIN I TNOW

Once again, my little nugget.

"For example, a sports team that is a heavy underdog and loses narrowly to a superior opponent might claim a moral victory, acquitting themselves well even in defeat."

Yair showed his skills, approach etc are valid as a large underdog. It's you against the rest of the world my sweet donkey. Enjoy.

 

[Sad Dad]

AS V DC. Anderson had some great moments and hurt DC to the body and took almost no damage but DC still got to control 90% of the fight. Saved and event and both guys ended up looking good.

 

[MeatWagon06]

you just literally OWNED YOURSELF
sad americans with mcdonalds reading comprehension because they only order food in numbers

you say max and yair is a moral victory. tell me EXACTLY WHAT was the MORAL gain that yair made in that defeat? notice that your own example says the losing team looks good because the winning team cheated. the gain is moral here because the rules were violated. but you don't even understand your own example, SAD.

now tell me exactly how and what moral gains yair made in his defeat against max. he was tough and showed heart. those are not moral gains. DO IT NOW TELL ME THE MORAL GAINS NOW AND DON'T DUMB IT DOWN EXPLAIN I TNOW

 

[JonJonesNeedle]

I'd say Conor vs Dustin 2 and 3 are huge moral victories.

Conor beat Dustin in their first fight (albeit 6 years ago at a different weight class with a somewhat flukey strike). Conor goes on to become the biggest star in MMA whereas Dustin works his way up the LW division. Eventually both get beaten by Khabib. They then rematch and Dustin becomes the first guy to knock Conor out cold, and then in the trilogy dominates Conor in the first round (where Conor is most dangerous) and Conor is stretched out. Dustin gains a lot more fans, avenges his early loss, wins a trilogy, and earns a lot of money.

 

[Exarch01]

people who cheat and break the rules must be punished
aljo bless

Indeed.

 

[Last Falconry]

unsurprising to see a decent contingent of people who don't even know what a moral victory is. Someone beating Conor is not a "moral victory". It's just a victory

 

[M.U.S.C.L.E.]

Once again, my little nugget.

"For example, a sports team that is a heavy underdog and loses narrowly to a superior opponent might claim a moral victory, acquitting themselves well even in defeat."

Yair showed his skills, approach etc are valid as a large underdog. It's you against the rest of the world my sweet donkey. Enjoy.

Damn bro, you got him banned?
I blame Yair. MMA's most polarizing figure.

 

[M.U.S.C.L.E.]

Devil's avocado?

I don't think Yair's stock went up. As an exciting fighter, sure, but it was always known. But the thing is - he came fresh off a long lay off, he's the same age as Max, he got controlled on the ground fairly easily by Max who is not known for being a grappler and, on the feet, which is Yair's bread and butter - Max kinda toyed with him also.

If Yair can't beat Max (who is behind his own wall having lost to the current champ twice) - not even in stand up, he has ground game problems, does not have the age excuse of still being a noob... there's just no forward momentum and big title hopes for him in the future. He was the one big star for the Mexican market and he's not able to comfortably beat the elite guys.

To me, he's a "can't miss" fighter of the likes of Luque and Gaethje, but in UFC it kind of is about contenders who can win the belt and we're starting to notice his ceiling. I wish him the best of luck and improvements, though.

This is the correct take.
There is no moral victory in having the same holes he's always had exposed even further. It was frustrating to watch him keep his hands low as Max used his head for a speed bag. Max fought his least intelligent fight (IMO) in ages, and like you said Yair couldn't capitalize. After the mauling Frankie gave him, I couldn't believe he still allowed himself to be taken down with such ease.
Certifying yourself as a gatekeeper and not a contender is a moral defeat.

 

[Mammothman]

Conor doing great vs Floyd and even taking rounds

 

[King Joffery]

Conor/Khabib where Conor single-handily humiliated all Khabib's relatives who jumped him and landed the last punch of the night.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

Nate against Edwards

How is getting his ass beat for 5 rounds a victory? Nate claims on the streets he would of won. He did get the fight stopped after the 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th. Had he not he would be finished. Nate had the chance to try and finish but he really didn't have Leon that badly hurt.

TL/DR
Nate selling Wolf tickets

 

[Qays Stetkevich]

All-time, Yoshida-Wandy 1 is up there.

Yair-Max was a great fight but it's far too much recency bias to claim it's the best moral victory ever.

What a great fight that was. *EVERYONE* respected Yoshida after that.