The "secret" of Gracie's success - reproduction.

[greenocelot]

The Gracie's were connected to the ruling class and thus, avoided any negative publicity or law enforcement. Rio was their playground. One such example was when Royler and Rickson, with authorization from the local police, got to choke a group of beach hoodlums one by one prior to the hoodlums being taken into custody. Note, the fight occurred between two private parties, the Gracie brothers and some locals. In this case, the law should not play favorites. It is more than likely the Gracie's engendered a lot of ill-will with their machismo and thus, attracted and welcomed conflict.

Or the the documented cases where Helio, Carlos, George, or etc attacked people like Donato Pires and others. Its really stupid.

 

[Ryo]

1. "Tanabe Mataemon talks about his Fusen-Ryu Jiujutsu" (PDF). Syd Hoare. Retrieved November 7, 2012.
2. John Stevens, The Way of Judo: A Portrait of Jigoro Kano and his Students, Shambala, 2013
3. Takeshi Kuroda, Mei Senshu Monogatari #8: Tanabe Mataemon, Modern Judo magazine, June 20, 1980
4. 外編２−古流と講道館流
5. Kainan Shimomura, Henri Plée's Revue Judo Kodokan, September 1952
6. Christian Quidet, La fabuleuse histoire des Arts Martiaux
7. Cesare Barioli, L’Avventure del Judo, Corpo Mente Cuore
8. Sekiguchi-ryū
9. Relation between Daito and Sekiguchi
10. Yukimitsu Kano, Judo Daijiten, 1984
11. Raisuke Kudo, Isogai Hajime no Maki: Mataemon no Gajo ni Kirikon da Isogai, Tokyo Sports, May 25, 1973
12. Tsunetane Oda, Judo Manabu Hito no Tame ni, 1950
13. Judo History 8

There is also the Great Japan Judo History
There is also Tani's Game of Jiu-JItsu
There is also EJ Mas article on Tani
There is also an primary source article of Miyake describing Jiu-Jitsu in Japan

That's all interesting info, but how does any of that prove the point I was refuting? Tanabe was not Maeda's teacher, and Fusen Ryu is not a ground grappling art. Ofcourse armlocks and other submission hold may exist in there but it in no way the focus. Fusen Ryu still exists in Japan today, it's still preserved pretty nicely. Those are facts. Tanabe even states that he didn't really learn his style from Fusen Ryu. Also Maeda's main teacher Tomita was known for having won some Judo/jujutsu challenge matches by submission. There is no evidence that Maeda learned from Tanabe.

 

[greenocelot]

That's all interesting info, but how does any of that prove the point I was refuting? Tanabe was not Maeda's teacher, and Fusen Ryu is not a ground grappling art. Ofcourse armlocks and other submission hold may exist in there but it in no way the focus. Fusen Ryu still exists in Japan today, it's still preserved pretty nicely. Those are facts. Tanabe even states that he didn't really learn his style from Fusen Ryu. Also Maeda's main teacher Tomita was known for having won some Judo/jujutsu challenge matches by submission. There is no evidence that Maeda learned from Tanabe.

You don't get it. It does not matter if he learned directly from Tanabe or not. The fact remains that the two ryu that Kano came from lacked ground fighting, and that the challenge matches either inspired judoka to learn ground fighting from other styles of Jiu-Jitsu or to learn from Tanabe himself. Even John Stevens, martial arts historian and judoka, quoted evidence from primary sources about Kano's disdain for ground fighting. In his book, he said that Oda even tried to convince Kano to make judo a 50% to 50% style, but he refused. The fact is that judoka, after the challenge matches, learned ground fighting outside of judo, from other styles of Jiu-Jitsu; there is not even an argument because this is widely known, sourced, and documented; as is my original statement.
I honestly don't know why I am arguing. Its like arguing against a climate change skeptic, when there is overwhelming eveidence to back up my statement. Many citable sources, both primary and secondary. Its like Neil Degrass Tyson said, "I don't debate, because debate acknowledges that facts are up for debate; but knowledge does not work like that."

 

[BOWHUNTER]

If your class mates are ok with you rolling in an erotic way, go ahead bro. You could use baby oil and roll in just underwear.

"Rolling deep" is where you spar at a very high intensity. Another way of describing it would be aggressive rolling or hard rolling.

hard rolling, is that when our boners touch?

 

[closequarters]

If your class mates are ok with you rolling in an erotic way, go ahead bro. You could use baby oil and roll in just underwear.

"Rolling deep" is where you spar at a very high intensity. Another way of describing it would be aggressive rolling or hard rolling.

In the context of this conversation, I believe rolling deep is referring to going places with a lot of people with you.

Rolling = going somewhere
Deep = high in numbers

 

[closequarters]

hard rolling, is that when our boners touch?

Please don't ask anyone if they wanna have a deep roll. That's not a thing at a bjj school. Maybe a gay bar. Lol

 

[snowman22]

hard rolling, is that when our boners touch?

So no-one has had a class mate say something like this: "bro, you were rolling deep just then! That skull ride and sword choke almost finished me off!"?